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Mills Of Birmingham

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Hi there, just found this thread from searching the Venour name... Im looking to find more about the Venour family of wellesbourne... a John Venour of Kingsmead, Wellesbourne Hastings (1735 ) I see the Venour family lived in wellesbourne for a good few hundred years... and have seen many connections of them back to the 1400s (the name goes back apparently to the battle of hastings)... and ive seen many connections with the Lucy family of Charlecote, but its not being easy to track down the ties between them :(

Im also trying to find what is apparently the Venour family home for almost 300 years.. the "Manor House" Wellesbourne, I would like to find photos of it but so far have drawn blanks :(
 
There was a watermill at Harborne from the 16C, Aiden, though I do not have a picture so cannot confirm that it was the one shown in the picture. The mill came under the ownership of a gunsmith in the 18C and until 1819 was a boring mill and later used for a while as a wire mill before becoming a corn mill, certainly in the 1830s. Thomas Millington, a manufacturer of steel pens, owned the mill in 1863 & it remained in his possession until 1908. Subsequently the mill became a dairy & later still a tyre & exhaust business. The pool was drained at some point & at one time a petrol station stood where the mill pool had been.
British History Online is usually good on mills. If there is enough of the old mill standing perhaps it is listed.
The various census might provide more detail on the mill ussage & occupancy.
 
That's great info & advice thanks. There is still a Petrol station next door. Next time I'm up there I shall poke around and pretend I need a new tyre/exhaust!
 
Below is the OS 1916 map, which shows the Harborne mill on that site. It also shows the millpond.. The 1885 (not illustrated) also shows the reservoir to the south west of the mill, and the 1958 version marks the dairy.
Mike

harborne_mill_1916.JPG
 
Where Harbourne Mill is written on the map is a large reservoir that is 2 feet higher than the mill pond and right adjacent to it. Maybe the original leat fed the mill pond and the reservoir retainment was constructed later. It's possible that there was a decent head here depending on the elevation of the down stream. There is not enough elevation information on the map. Anyway enough HP for steel rolling and with the resevoir enough volume for a shift perhaps. It was Bourne Brook I think. I wonder if the mill had a turbine in the later stages.
This is a very interesting site and just below off the map is the Birmingham Canal that joined the Worcester Canal right there. There is still some of the canal remaining if you look at GE but the wharfe and the canal and the brick works at the junction are gone...but you can maybe just make out a few things in the remaining dirt...perhaps.
 
Thanks Mikejee and Rupert. It is an interesting site and one I was previously unaware of. Thanks for your help.
 
I don't know what remains of the original buildings but the configuration of the principal buildings just below the mill pond seems to be the same now, so there might be some signs of the old mill system to see. I think that the pool level could heve been about maybe 15 or 20 feet above the road and there seems to be a row of shops in that space now. At the bottom right end of the reservoir there was a sluice to mainatain it's level and let surplus water (if any)run down to the downstream.

Ref. 1. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...=10092&ox=4595&oy=2422&zm=1&czm=1&x=367&y=194
Ref. 2. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...=10092&ox=4675&oy=2739&zm=1&czm=1&x=695&y=210
Ref. 3. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...d=10093&ox=590&oy=3097&zm=1&czm=1&x=374&y=224

Ref 1. is a bit more of Mikes map
Ref 2. shows the Birmingham Canal just below the mill and perhaps the reservoir was used to top it up on occasion...looking at the lead down.
Ref 3. is the next page to the right and just a few hundred yards down right from the mill. It shows the old wharf and junction with the Worcester Canal. it's all gone today but the Worcester Canal is of course still used mostly for recreation.

If you use GE you can trace the present day remnants of the old canal to the west of the reservoir. You can see weeded over parts through the trees at the bottom of the gardens that back on to it and the reservoir is a housing complex and the older millpool contains shops.
 
Thanks Rupert, cracking info. The Petrol station is certainly on the slope above the mill buildings
 
Picking up late on this tremendous Thread, having come on FH site less than a year ago, has Cooper's Mill in Deritend been mentioned yet? Can't see it on here, but it may have something elsewhere. Anyway I think this photo from the cover of Victor Price's "A History of Greater Birmingham" shows it nicely in Little Park Street.
 
Yes Dennis, that picture has been on before but no matter. Looking at the picture you can see the circular moat around the clergy buildings at the left side. This is shown at a slightly higher level than the Manor House moat which it fed and appears just to the right of the tree. The straight line leading up diagonally from the right side is the leat from the Rea, leading to Astericks mill pond which can be seen just to the right of the Manor moat.
We concluded that this picture is viewed from Holloway Head windmill. I believe that the buildings/moats would have been too far away to see much so that the scale had to be exagerated to show anything. One of the great pictures on this site.
Incidentally, what about the other windmill in the distance just to the right of the steeple. Looks like it is in Nechells somewhere.
 
Hi all - I've been following this thread with interest -I notice that several pages back, there was a brief mention of Millpool Hill B14 and the lack of any physical evidence of the millpool. Don't know if it's relevant but I grew up round there and we often used to play on the edge of the golf course just down from the Horseshoe Pub. Did you know that there's a small arm off the Stratford Canal just behind the pub - I wonder if it's anything to do with the old mill? Is it on any of the old maps? If you look on GE you can see where Chinn Brook passes beneath the A435 - there used to be quite a lot of old brickwork (culvert?) there. Might be worth a bit of a root round?
 
Re. 373/4...the first series map is of that spot and if you look just below the words Horse Shoe Inn by the B of bench mark 469 you can see a little square which seems to co-incide with an anomally on GE of that spot....ref.https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...d=9257&ox=1656&oy=3116&zm=1&czm=1&x=117&y=441

The sheet below shows the area that I believe is where the mill pool was and can be seen on GE as the circular road called Marsham Road. I think That was the mill pond but seems to have been filled in before the map was made in the latter part of the 1800s. The canal however was routed around the elevated pool which would have been fed from a weir above on the brook via the usual dug leat. Millpool Hill Farm was there in the 1800s. Ref. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/m...id=9258&ox=1741&oy=216&zm=1&czm=1&x=111&y=237.

It's not for certain but the elevations seem ok for this and perhaps the afforementioned anomally are remains of the wheelhouse which would have been below the surface of the pool. The tailrace would have rejoined the stream possibly on the other side of the road called Millpool Hill.
 
Hi Rupert - on the 1887 map (https://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html) there is a sluice shown on Chinn Brook just N of the A435. Your location of the mill pool beneath Marsham Road seems to be very likely - on the 1887 map you can clearly see a large depression in this location. I'm assuming that after this length of the canal was built (1793-96) the millpool would have fallen into disuse as the water supply from Chinn Brook would have been interrupted by the construction of the canal. Moreover, the course of the Chinn Brook just S of the A435 and again a bit further back towards Brandwood Tunnel looks suspiciously straight implying that it might have been realigned. Also, if you look at the modern-day GE aerial photo, you can see a line of mature trees that starts at Marsham Road, across the course of the canal, heads straight through the anomaly (Wheelhouse?) that you mention above and ends up at Chinn Brook. Could this have been the course of the wheelhouse feed and tail race? The sluice would thus have been in the correct position for regulating the flow of water from the mill pond/wheelhouse. The original supply to the millpond could also have been used to supplement the flow of water into the canal until the Earlswood lakes reservoirs were built in the 1820s.
 
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Typically canals followed stream runs and used that water when constructed and as another poster pointed out there was conflict on water usage with the old mills. I doubt that there was much water in Chinn Brook. I don't know what the sluice was for north of the road. This is down stream from where I thought the mill building would be (the stream flows from left to right notwithstanding some of the map arrows). There would not be a sluice in the tailrace...the water just freely flowing back into the stream which would be about 20 ft lower than the surface of the pool at that point.
However one wonders what the mill was used for and one notices that there is an old iron kiln north of Millpool Hill. Perhaps that was what the pool head drove....a furnace bellows similar to Aston Furnace...and the sluice directed water towards that facility. It's only a theory at this point...gained from following elevations on the bottom line of GE and BMs. on the maps. Perhaps more research on mill usage is in order. Notice all of the clay pits around...no doubt used in part to line the bottom of the canals.
 
A watermill associated with Monyhull sub-manor was powered by the brook : Alcester Road crossed the valley on its dam at the foot of Millpool Hill. For a few yards below the confluence with Haunch Brook, the Chinn is the Yardley / Kings Norton boundary.

The above can be seen in this ref....https://www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/re...acher/history/jm_jones/jmj_y_waters/page4.htm

So my thoughts on this subject were wrong. I was thinking of the usual arrangement of leat and tailrace...but there was not much water in this stream I think, so they simply dammed the stream and let the water back up and ran the road across the dam. Very similar to a mill that was in Sutton Park (Powels Pool I think). Wether the road and dam was where we see now is not known and there might be some indications that this assembly was further South by a bit and the field just south of the now Millpool Hill road seems to contain old workings under the surface on GE. Anyway this information answers some questions and what I thought was the raised millpool actually served to retain the backed up stream. How much head was available and what the mill product was is unknown at this point.
One wonders if the millpond was still there when the canal was constructed. It's hard to find much info on this site. A good opportunity for the Time Team perhaps and the Horseshoe Pub is handy for lunch time. They must have real ale for the guy with the sweaty hat. Come to think of it...if they went there 130 years ago they would find pretty much the same set-up, sans the golf course...pub and all. The mill would have been gone back then too.

PS. Incidentally, if the mill dam was there when the canal was put through, then it would have had to be broken through. This would have halted passage on the roadway so that perhaps the current road was moved further north and a bridge over the canal was constructed to facilitate traffic flow when the damm road was broken. The hill seems to bend northwards before it turns onto Alcester Road. Am I mistaken or do I see what might have been the old road route across what might have been the old dam where the affore mentioned annomoly is and a row of trees. This route joins Alcester Road lower down just on the north side of the current circle of houses. So perhaps the lumpy looking field with bike tracks on it was where the mill stood. It would have been just below what might have been the old dam.
 
Another thread led to this but it should be here I think.

OK. There are no railways and New Street is agricultural for a large part. Ann St./Colmore Row was called Newhall Lane then and the New Hall can be seen at the bottom of a path that was to become Newhall Street for us. The Newhall being the building in the top right corner. The thing is that it had a fish pond as you can see…fer eatin. Go back up the path to Newhall Lane and on your left as you reach the corner is another pool that was the old Priory fish pool. You can see the darkened outline and the banking on the down hill side and a narrowed section at the eastern end…for what purpose is not known. The pool may have been out of use by this time…the Priory being demolished by some monarch or other. It was in the Old Square which is in the center of the page, lower edge. Back in the Priory days, St. Phillips would not be there and the lane from the Priory (Temple Row) would have probably cut across the church yard which would have been an orchard then. Curious that the lane may still be represented by the cross path even now. Of course the priory pool is no longer accurate knowledge by now but I believe it was there…between The Grand hotel and Newhall Street. And fed by a leat from Priory Brook.
At the time of the map, Christchurch in later Victoria Square is not even built let alone demolished and even Ann street is not known. Later we have evidence of a grindstone that was probably driven by a water wheel; on Ann Street. So the old Priory leat may have been used for a water supply for this.
OK. We have the Priory Pool and Newhall pond…and down from there…middle of page, right side is another pool.. I can’t read the writing on it. I wonder what this was for? Could this be a mill pool? It is at the bottom of Snow Hill (Wolverhampton/Walsall Road)….countryside then.
So, Priory Brook…a leat from which fed the Friars fish pond….the brook itself feeding the Newhall fish pond and then on to this other pond at the bottom of Snow Hill. The tailrace from the Priory fish pond would feed back down hill into the brook somewhere. Later the canal and farmers locks were to be built through there and probably incorporated everything but could the Old Steam Mill mentioned on the 1890 survey…have been an even older water mill at one time.
The Priory land boundary was about at Congreve Street which is the lane leading off from the square at the top. They did not only eat fish apparently…they had a rabbit warren by the square and had imported rabbits from France. The map is drawn with North to the right.

The map is cropped from one on Wickipedia so you will have to zoom in.

I think that the building in New Street that was used innitially for King Edwards School is the only sighting that I know, of the old Guild Hall. I think that the later school Georgian and Gothic buildings were larger and bordered on Peck Lane.
 
Nice piece of work Rupert...so glad to see that you haven't lost your touch on the way you tell us about your findings..well done
 
Here's hoping that I have attached a document....it's 12 pages long, but hopefully some of you good members will plough your way through it and hopefully be able to help in some way of filling the blanks for me...the document is of all the mills in the Warwickshire area including Birmingham and surrounding areas and what I am trying to find out is when they closed and what became of them...any help would be gratefuly received...thankyou in advance
 
An impressive list. Arranged by individusl rivers/streams, on the way down the same might be a help. Town/Lloyds/Astericks Mill dates back before the time you state. Around in 1500s.
There is no mention of Heath/Coopers Mill...or did I miss it. If you go to the thread on 'Heathmill Lane' you will find much that might be of interest. The owners house dating from 1535 or so is still there on Fazely Street (somwhat changed) but the small mill house, just below it dissapeared in times of change...possibly when the canals were built. The old mill leat still remains though and it is now the run of the river Rea itself. Closest Mill to be seen in Brum?
Too much work to comment on all but have just been looking at the above.
 
Boulton and Watt manufactoy where J Watt developed the steam engine..jpg
A picture of the Boulton and Watt manufactory where J. Watt developed the steam engine.
 
The Baron said:
My be this should be under the Sutton Park Topic but it is about a Mill. So here it is.
Water Power was the reason for the creation of Longmore Pool by a Mr John Gibbons, John Riland ( Rector of Sutton) and William Rawlins in th18th century.The mill (shown in my post date unknown) powered by the pool made buttons at first and was later used as a flour mill. The dam at Longmore Pool burst in July1923 and the resulting flood caused much damage in the town of Sutton Coldfield.
Click to expand...

Bill Dargue suggests that it was first a corn mill, and later turned to buttons.

Longmore/ Longmoor

William Dargue A History of BIRMINGHAM Places & Placenames from A to Y
billdargue.jimdofree.com billdargue.jimdofree.com
 
Not actually Birmingham, but including some close by, the Mills Archive has recently added a large amount of photographs of Staffordshire Mills, including Forge mill in Sandwell ; Bustlerholme in West Bromwich , and others at Fazeley, Aldridge, Kinver and many other places (1011 items in all) at

Information object browse - Archive Catalogue

catalogue.millsarchive.org catalogue.millsarchive.org
 
Thanks all.

I think I can actually remember it....I was born in 1956 and we used to be taken on long walks around the area by our mom....I would, however, consider the "Yardley Wood" description as a bit of a stretch...but I can see why.

Cheers.

Oh for a pint in the Valley. Or the Bagnell. Or the Warstock. Or the Haven.

S23.
 
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