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Matilda Mayes

pjmburns said:
He married again to Martha Carr in 1861 so I assume Mary Ann died.
View attachment 190705
On second marriage he is down as a widower.
View attachment 190706

Can't find him in 1871 - where were all the Maisey brothers??
By 1881 he is again a widower
View attachment 190709
View attachment 190710
The occasional copy A means something was changed after the original registration

Should point out this William is not involved in fish trade but his father Robert is a shoemaker.
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Thats really helpful thank you. I was going to do a summary of what i have found so far but will keep that seperate. In 1851 hes down as fish dealer when married to Mary Ann Mills. Ive only got the 1851 census so far for him. So is it possible his first wife died. And thanks for the kids birth reg. This family are not making it easy what with all the spellings.
 
It seems likely that Margaret was the daughter of William Preston and Elizabeth Downing, though frustratingly there doesn't appear to be a baptism to confirm it. Elizabeth was married at least once before William Preston and once afterwards, to a William Platfoot (spelling variations again).

William and Elizabeth Preston appear to have had at least 3 children beside the supposed Margaret - Elizabeth b1798 Kings Lynn, Edward b & d 1800 Great Yarmouth and Edward b1804 Kings Lynn.

William Platfoot was a witness on the marriages of Elizabeth, Edward and Margaret. Also a witness on Margaret's marriage was Elizabeth (Easter), her sister.

Elizabeth (mother) was still alive in 1841, living with Edward. She may have died in 1851, William Platfoot probably died in 1831.
 
Vixen said:
Thats really helpful thank you. I was going to do a summary of what i have found so far but will keep that seperate. In 1851 hes down as fish dealer when married to Mary Ann Mills. Ive only got the 1851 census so far for him. So is it possible his first wife died. And thanks for the kids birth reg. This family are not making it easy what with all the spellings.
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He is a widower on his second marriage.
 
Okay a summary of what I think I've found today.
Thomas had 8 children. Four with Sabina - Matilda, Eliza, Robert and John.
He had further children, so half siblings to the above with Eliza Morton -

Robert Morton Mayes - I think Robert died in 1950. I found a 1939 census for Robert Mayes and he's down as a widow and date of birth fits.

23 Nov 1874 • Birmingham, Warwickshire, England​

MAYES, ROBERT MORTON MORTON GRO Reference: 1875 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 86. Robert I believe married Emma Elizabeth Tomkins and they had one child - Violet lily Mayes 1898-1900. Birth reg found

Lucy Louise Morton Mayes MAIZE, LUCY LOUISE MORTON MORTON GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 113
I believe she married Whitley Osbourne Rhoades. I found two children so far Margaret Gladys Rhoades and William Albert Rhoades. Ive not found a death record yet for Lucy.

Ada Morton Mayes 1876 - birth record found. There is an Ada M Mayes died city of london April 1927 but no idea if this is her. Havent found records on her yet

Margaret Morton Mayes 1884 birth record found. I believe Margaret married William John Witheridge. So far four children found.

So in all those records apart from one spelling error on a birth reg, Mayes is the dominant name.

Thomas Mayes 1837 siblings: Elizabeth Preston Maisey info from Norfolk Family History site: Born 1821 died 1821 Workhouse, Yarmouth
Sophia Elizabeth Mayes on the baptism record her birth is down as 5th Nov 1828 died 1832 Yarmouth workhouse
Edward Preston Maisey baptism record 2 Oct 1833 died 1835 Yarmouth Workhouse
Elizabeth Sophia Preston Maisey MAISEY, ELIZABETH SOPHIA PRESTON PRESTON GRO Reference: 1840 M Quarter in GREAT YARMOUTH Volume 13 Page 355 - died 1845 Yarmouth Workhouse

Then we have James Preston Mayes - Ive baptism record but no birth reg. He married Eliza Bassingthwaite 1845 and they had:
Ann Elizabeth MAIZEY, birth reg mmn BASSINGTHWAIGHTE GRO Reference: 1846 J Quarter in GREAT YARMOUTH Volume 13 Page 592. Ive the 1851 and 61 census but nothing more on her. I believe she went by Elizabeth rather than Ann as she's down as Elizabeth on the census.
A Eliza Ludman married a James Maisey 1842 so did he marry twice?

Matilda Mayes/massey/maisey 1849-1875. I believe she married Thomas Collins and found one child so far Leah Collins 1873

Martha Maisey 1851. Have a baptism record but nothing else on her yet.

George Henry Maisey 16 Aug 1852 • Great Yarmouth
MAISEY, GEORGE HENRY BASINGTHWAITE GRO Reference: 1852 S Quarter in GREAT YARMOUTH NORFOLK Volume 04B Page 8. Ive birth and baptism record, 1861 and 1881 census but nothing else

William Maisey 1854 MAISEY, WILLIAM BASSINGTHWAIGHTE GRO Reference: 1854 D Quarter in GREAT YARMOUTH Volume 04B Page 16. I think he married Emily Cox. So far I have a birth, marriage and 1861 census.

Then we have Thomas's brother William Maisey 1827 believed to have been born in Suffolk unlike all his siblings born in Yarmouth. He married Mary Ann Mills but Janice just informed me he married again. I found three children: Robert Mayes 1847 18 Dec 1847 • Yarmouth, Norfolk, England. Info from Norfolk Family History Society MAISEY, ROBERT MILLS GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in GREAT YARMOUTH Volume 13 Page 340. I have baptism and 1851 census but thats all.

William and Mary Ann also had Mary Ann Maisey 1850. Not found birth records yet or baptism. I believe she married Henry Joseph Rawlings who I believe died in the Yarmouth Infirmary 1913. Mary Ann is in the same place I believe Caister Road, workhouse in 1891 and 1911. Havent found other census or death record. And finally had Charlotte Susannah Maisey 1855. Janice kindly posted up her details but Ive yet to do anything with them. All these children seem to go by the spelling of Maisey

Then we have John 1835. There is a baptism record John Esther Maisey - wondering if it should be preston. I have baptism and 1851 census and 1861. He’s married to an Elizabeth but no idea yet who he married

And like some of you where are those brothers in 1871!! Additionally William, Thomas's brother also does not have an 1871 census so they are all missing!!
 
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MWS said:
It seems likely that Margaret was the daughter of William Preston and Elizabeth Downing, though frustratingly there doesn't appear to be a baptism to confirm it. Elizabeth was married at least once before William Preston and once afterwards, to a William Platfoot (spelling variations again).

William and Elizabeth Preston appear to have had at least 3 children beside the supposed Margaret - Elizabeth b1798 Kings Lynn, Edward b & d 1800 Great Yarmouth and Edward b1804 Kings Lynn.

William Platfoot was a witness on the marriages of Elizabeth, Edward and Margaret. Also a witness on Margaret's marriage was Elizabeth (Easter), her sister.

Elizabeth (mother) was still alive in 1841, living with Edward. She may have died in 1851, William Platfoot probably died in 1831.
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So Elizabeth Easter was Margaret's sister? So theres a clear link but lack of record as you said. Its similar with Robert maisey, as you said about the other maisey children being born in Norfolk but no record linking him back to James or Elizabeth sims.
 
pjmburns said:
If it happens to me I "edit", delete the content. Type "duplicate" and save.
You can't remove a message fully.

Just tried to post this twice.
Click to expand...
Thanks followed your advice. I keep getting server errors at the moment.

Just saw this, dont know if related at all
NameMargaret Partridge
GenderFemale
Age21
Birth Date1796
Marriage Date12 Dec 1817
Marriage PlaceNorwich, Norfolk, England
SpouseRobert Mayes
 
Now I am confused. I thought this was Robert and Margarets daughter
Elizabeth Sophia Preston Maisey
Record TypeBaptism
Birth Date10 Dec
Baptism Date18 Dec 1839
Baptism PlaceGreat Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
FatherRobert Maisey
MotherMartha Maisey
Parish as it AppearsGreat Yarmouth
 
pjmburns said:
He married again to Martha Carr in 1861 so I assume Mary Ann died.
View attachment 190705
On second marriage he is down as a widower.
View attachment 190706

Can't find him in 1871 - where were all the Maisey brothers??
By 1881 he is again a widower
View attachment 190709
View attachment 190710
The occasional copy A means something was changed after the original registration

Should point out this William is not involved in fish trade but his father Robert is a shoemaker.
Click to expand...
Martha was a widow. There are marriage bans, very faded - dad thought to be Rees. Reer or Park
 
Been doing some thinking about Sabina -
She could be Irish as has been mentioned before.

Could she have been adopted, perhaps name change or could James Snell have been a stepdad? She comes from Birmingham if the records are correct. James was alive in 1860.

Thomas Mayes was still living in Norfolk in 1851 aged 13. But 10 yrs later aged 23 in Birmingham. He was most likely in Norfolk till 15/16? Maybe? We don’t know the year he moved to Birmingham. So he met Sabina somewhere in those years

I know the Norfolk born Sabina Snell would be too young to have Eliza but were all kids births registered soon after they were born? Norfolk born Sabina on gro has no mmn listed. Illegitimate?

Could it be Sabina went back to Ireland after Matilda’s birth and perhaps that’s where the Mayes brothers went? 1871 census missing for them all.

Also there are two birth reg’s different numbers for a Sabina Snell st Germans Cornwall. Is this just a duplicate record given a new number? However, Sabina was from Birmingham we assume as on the census where she's down as Louisa, her place of birth said birmingham
 
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The Sabina Snell in Cornwall became Sabina Grills at marriage and went to Canada.

Do we know Sabinas age as she was a Minor on her marriage at St Martins in 1860.
 
A minor was considered under 21
Alberta said:
The Sabina Snell in Cornwall became Sabina Grills at marriage and went to Canada.

Do we know Sabinas age as she was a Minor on her marriage at St Martins in 1860.
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Usually a minor was under 21. A marriage age of 15 in 1847 - Realistic or not? Marriages were legal for girls as young as 12, and boys as young as 14, until 1929 when the marriage age was raised to 16. However parental consent was required for the marriage to be fully legal.
 
Lynn in an effort to try and find more info on Sabina do you think the inquest report would give any more information about her and if so, would you be willing to get this for me when you go to the archives. John Mayes death reg attachment posted up days ago gives the name of the Birmingham Coroner as John Burt Davies and the date the inquest was held is on the paper cutting Janice posted up

I thought sabina was an uncommon name but when I just put into the ancestry search Sabina, birmingham, there are a lot of them. Snell surname is believed to originate from cornwall but spread even to the USA and Canada.
 
hi vixen can you give me the ref number of the records again for gem st school and also the relevant info for the inquest report...

lyn
 
Vixen said:
James was alive in 1960

I know the Norfolk born Sabina Snell would be too young to have Eliza but were all kids births registered soon after they were born? Norfolk born Sabina on gro has no mmn listed. Illegitimate?

Also there are two birth reg’s different numbers for a Sabina Snell st Germans Cornwall. Is this just a duplicate record given a new number?
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We don't know James was alive in 1860.
It may be he doesn't exist if Sabina was illegitimate and she made the name up to "save fce"

I can only find one birth reg for Cornwall Sabina but we know we can rule her out as she was married in Canada in 1861

The Sabina born in Malmesbury is a servant in the 1871 census and listed as Sabina Snell.
 
pjmburns said:
We don't know James was alive in 1860.
It may be he doesn't exist if Sabina was illegitimate and she made the name up to "save fce"

I can only find one birth reg for Cornwall Sabina but we know we can rule her out as she was married in Canada in 1861

The Sabina born in Malmesbury is a servant in the 1871 census and listed as Sabina Snell.
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I only assumed James was alive as on most marriage docs if the father is deceased it usually has that added. Ive come across a lot of them where a son or daughter is getting married, they list the dad but it has deceased entered. Yeah I can get the making up of a name, it could be even her mum did. I even started to question if sabina wasnt real as such but snell and sabina are unusual names to pick if making something up...I think she exists I just dont know where! I wonder if Snell is her mothers maiden name or whether Sabina was registered by her mum whoever she is, and then she married James or got together with James hence any children taking the name on?
 
Astoness said:
hi vixen can you give me the ref number of the records again for gem st school and also the relevant info for the inquest report...

lyn
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There are admission records for the period matilda and Eliza were at Gem Street Industrial School, and was told childrens records are under reference MS 994/5/1, plus other categories under MS 994/5. Previously I posted these numbers here too Ms994/14 and ms994/23.

The birmingham coroner for John May/Mays was John Burt Davies. He is down as Birmingham coroner which can be a different person to the Warwickshire coroner. John died 6th Aug 1865. The inquest was held 8th Aug 1865. Johns birth reg is May and on death record below Mays.

Ive no idea if the inquest reports which may include witnesses as well as parents etc will reveal anything of Sabina but just thought it may be worth looking. Im hoping that both Matilda and her sister Eliza's records have been kept as it may I dont know say of what happened to Eliza where she was going to live etc when she left Gem Street and indeed why they ended up there. I also wonder if the two girls even knew they were related?? Thanks so much Lyn and dont mind covering any costs or contributing to mileage etc
 

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MWS said:
A little recap.

Robert Maisey/Mayes/Massey (c1800 - 1864) was born in Leith, Scotland. Margaret Preston (c1800 - 1863) was born in Kings Lynn. They married 7 Jan 1821, Great Yarmouth.

Children include...

Elizabeth Preston Maisey 1821
James Maisey 1822
William Maisey 1826
Edward Preston Maisey 1833
John Maisey 1835
Thomas Maisey 1837
Elizabeth Sophia Preston Maisey 1839

Thomas Maisey married Sabina Snell in 1860 and had Eliza (1861), Robert (1863) and Matilda (1867). By 1881 Thomas is with Eliza Morton and has more children. Sabina has disappeared.

On the 1861 census Thomas and 2 of his brothers, James and John, are living in Bham. All are in the fishmonger trade.

Also in Bham is Ann Kilmartin, the illegitimate daughter of James' wife, Eliza Bassingthwaite, whose husband is also in the fishmonger trade. I think she was reg. and baptised as Georgiana.

Finally in 1861 there are a John and Hannah Loodmer, both born Norfolk, in Bham, whilst with Robert and Margaret back in Great Yarmouth is a William Loodger.
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So I wonder who the loodmers are. Unusual name there as well
 
Vixen said:
There are admission records for the period matilda and Eliza were at Gem Street Industrial School, and was told childrens records are under reference MS 994/5/1, plus other categories under MS 994/5. Previously I posted these numbers here too Ms994/14 and ms994/23.

The birmingham coroner for John May/Mays was John Burt Davies. He is down as Birmingham coroner which can be a different person to the Warwickshire coroner. John died 6th Aug 1865. The inquest was held 8th Aug 1865. Johns birth reg is May and on death record below Mays.

Ive no idea if the inquest reports which may include witnesses as well as parents etc will reveal anything of Sabina but just thought it may be worth looking. Im hoping that both Matilda and her sister Eliza's records have been kept as it may I dont know say of what happened to Eliza where she was going to live etc when she left Gem Street and indeed why they ended up there. I also wonder if the two girls even knew they were related?? Thanks so much Lyn and dont mind covering any costs or contributing to mileage etc
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was matilda and eliza both at gem st in 1871 ? and how old was eliza

lyn
 
Vixen said:
yeah I saw these thanks Janice. Only query is what the surname is of martha, whether rees, reer or park. I cant read her fathers name as its so faded.
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In 1852 Samuel Carr married Martha REAR in Yarmouth.
Haven't looked for a cert to check that.
 
Im going to look further at the rest of the godparents, also on Elizabeth Guest who was a witness to Sabina and Thomas's wedding. It may lead no where.
So william long who was married to Ann Bassingthwaite, most likely mother of Eliza Bassingthwaite who married James Mayes/Maisey was present with Elizabeth Guest at the wedding.

Robert Jefferies and Eliza Maisey were down on Matilda's baptism. - Eliza could be James wife as they married in 1845
Eliza's godparents I think is Edward Barret/barnet, looks as if Barret with Ann Killmartin who we now know married William Long and was the mother of Eliza Bassingthwaite.
John Mayes/May/mays brother of Eliza and Matilda has just one name on a baptism entry as there isnt a full certificate, and thats Edward Molloy. Interestingly the transcribed version of his baptism record lists Massey as dad and nothing entered for the mother. Why? Why would they have not entered the mothers name?
Robert we have yet to find a record if one exists. But Eliza mayes/Masey registered or was on the death record entry. why not sabina?
Ann and William long were present at the marriage of James Mayes daughter Matilda.
 
Astoness said:
was matilda and eliza both at gem st in 1871 ? and how old was eliza

lyn
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There is an entry for Eliza Moyes but when you look at the original census, looks like Mayes. I would lay bets this is Matilda's sister. Eliza was 8, dont know when the census was done, perhaps before Eliza's birthday. It has her down as 8 even tho she was born 1861 but one of those years could account for the census being done before her birthday as I think the 1871 census from memory was in April and Eliza was born 26th June. It is a year out but census's arent accurate with ages as we know. Matilda was 3 but born 1867. In 1881 Matilda was at Walton Rd Major Lesters Girls Home in Kirkdale, lancashire. I've looked through the census and no sign of Eliza in 1881. Someone a long time ago said the girls at Gem Street would have got out of there as soon as they were able. Also Eliza would have been 20 in 1881. There is an Eliza Mayes working as a servant in 1881
 
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