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MARKS - Sherlock St, Birmingham (from Germany)

C

Christine in Herts

proper brummie kid
Hello

I am helping my niece with her paternal tree. It includes a family where three siblings came over from Germany in 1853 and lived for a while in Birmingham.

  1. Johanna MARKS b 1830-1 Germany
  2. Moses/Morris MARKS b 4 Mar 1834 Himbach, Germany (m(1) 1853 B'ham, Teresa ROBERTS; m(2) 1862 London, Celia Esther Jacob JONES) - shoemaker
  3. David MARKS b 25 Dec 1835 Himbach, Germany - shoe traveller
Moses/Morris had children from both marriages:

  1. Betsy/Lizzie MARKS b 1855-6 B'ham
  2. Mat(h)ilda MARKS b 1857 B'ham
  3. Arthur MARKS b 1860 B'ham
and

  1. Albert Morris MARKS (almost certainly registered Mordecai Albert MARKS 1863 B'ham)
  2. Frederick Michael MARKS b b1865-6 B'ham
  3. Sophia Miriam MARKS (almost certainly registered Sarah S MARKS 1866 B'ham)
  4. Florence J MARKS (almost certainly registered Jeannette Florence MARKS 1868 B'ham)
  5. Alice MARKS (almost certainly registered Julia Alice MARKS 1870 B'ham)
  6. Adolph Abraham MARKS registered Kings Norton 1871 (given names inverted)
  7. Alfred MARKS register Kings Norton 1873
  8. Joseph MARKS (almost certainly registered Joseph Lewis MARKS 1875 Kings Norton)
Most of the family emigrated to New Zealand on the Eastminster in 1879. Many ended up living on the Eastern seaboard of Australia (Victoria / NSW)

I have been extraordinarily fortunate in being able to follow up Moses/Morris MARKS's naturalisation documents, finding a researcher in Himbach who was able to give a lot of information about his family there. It was pleasing to know that my snippet of information from the 1861 - that Moses had an elder sister, Johanna, solved a puzzle for her: one of his younger sisters was described as "fourth" child in the records, but, in the absence of Johanna, she appeared to be only the third child. The researcher even forwarded me a copy of a letter that Morris had written to Himbach addressed from his son, Albert's, House in London in 1905, to request a copy of his birth certificate. I think Morris died in 1907 in Kingston.

Albert went on to become one of the directors of the J Lyons catering firm, moving in posh circles of Society. He died in 1914, while still living in London.

Although I have been able to follow them through the censuses, and even to the antipodes, I don't have so much about them from their Birmingham days - especially Moses's first marriage to Teresa. I haven't spotted the children of the first marriage after 1871.

At some point I hope to travel up to Birmingham to do some on-site research, and my niece may come too. If anyone has any suggestions as to useful sources we might follow up when the time comes, I should be very grateful. Of course - if you have these names in your tree, I'd be pleased to share research.

Christine
 
Christine
I don't know if the following information is of interest, if you don't already have it. The first is from local directories (which aren't always complete) followed by 1871 census. couldn't find morris in 1861 census
1855-1862 Marks, Moses, shoemaker 199 Sherlock St
1868 Marks, Moses Wholesale shoe warehouse, 199 Sherlock St
1872 - 1873 Marks Morris, 4 Varna road
1872 Marks Moses & Co. clothiers, 135 Digbeth
1876 Marks Morris, 85 Belgrave road (crosses Varna Road)

The 1871 Census gives us the household of Morris at 4 Varna road;
Moses M arks 36 shoe factor born Himbay (?) germany
Celia Marks 36 wife born London
Lizzie Marks 15 daughter born birmingham
Matilda Marks 13 daughter born Birmingham
Albert Marks 7 son born Birmingham
Fred Marks 5 son born birmingham
Sophia Marks 4 daughter born birmingham
Florence Marks 2 daughter born birmingham
Alice Marks 1 daughter born birmingham
Margaret Follard (? Surname not clear) 13 servant born birmingham

Mike
 
Thank you, again, Mike

I had some of that info, but not all - and I'd certainly rather have useful info twice than not at all! It all helps to build the picture.

Christine
 
Hi Christine in Herts,

I've just come across your posting and found several of my "ancestors" on it.

I'll set the scene:

My father-in-law, Norman DAVIS (b. 1889 Paddington, NSW, Australia; d. 1945 Hurstville NSW) had a brother Ernest Edward DAVIS (b. 1890 Paddington; d. 1943 Linden, Blue Mountains, NSW) who, on 2nd March 1920 in Sydney, married Julia Alice MARKS (who went as Alice MARKS, b. 1891 Paddington, d. 31 Oct 1980 Hunters Hill, NSW).

Alice's parents were Frederick Michael MARKS (b. [I think] Sept. Qr. 1865 Birmingham, England; d. 24 June 1943 Ashfield, NSW) and Sarah LEVY (b. 7 Apr 1868 Grenfell, NSW; d. 24 July 1943 Sydney).

Fred's parents were Morris MARKS (Né Moses MARKS, b. 4 Mar 1834 Himbach, near Frankfurt, Germany; d. 21 Jan 1920 Paddington NSW) and Celia Esther JACOB(S) JONES (b. Est 1835 London; d. 29 Dec 1898 Paddington NSW).

MORRIS MARKS had a son Albert Morris MARKS (b. [I think] Dec. Qr. 1863 Birmingham, England; d. 16 Sept. 1914 Kent, England [I think]).

Albert Morris MARKS married Elizabeth COHEN whose parents were Morris Joseph COHEN (b. Est 1828; d. 3 Oct 1896 East Melbourne, Victoria, Australia) and Isabel (aka Isabella) (Née ???? [possibly also JACOB(S) JONES] (b. Est 1830; d. 7 Jan 1904, East Melbourne).

Now, Christine, here's the link which I seek:

Elizabeth COHEN (and I don't know anything about her) was a first cousin to Joseph LYONS who is probably this Joseph Lyons:

https://library.gramps-project.org/users/lyons/ppl/a/a/aac33f58d7864b900fa.html


The following is an excerpt about Albert Morris MARKS from the internet:

MARKS, Albert Morris
From Old Bailey Wiki

Albert Morris MARKS was born late in 1863 in the Birmingham area, the son of Moses/Morris MARKS, an immigrant shoemaker from Himbach (H01/152/5977#10620), near Frankfurt, and his second wife, Celia Esther JONES.
On 22 Sep 1886, in Melbourne, Australia, he married Elizabeth COHEN who was first cousin to Joseph LYONS.
According to the 1915 Directors' Report in the Company Magazine, he was appointed to the Board of Directors of J Lyons & Co Ltd in 1899.
His business activities put the family in a position to enter "Society". He and his wife are in the list of names summoned to Buckingham Palace to "Their Majesties' Court" (as noted in The Times, Saturday, Feb 08, 1913; pg. 12; Issue 40130).
He died 16 Sep 1914 (as noted in the London Gazette No. 28984 of 24 Nov 1914, and in the Lyons pensioners' obituaries online).

Christine, what I'd like to find out is how Elizabeth COHEN was first cousin to Joe LYONS (and anything about her).

I've got a bit of info about the Australian descendants.

(My ancestory is 25% Irish, 25% Swiss, 6% Scottish and 34% English.)

Regards,
Clynt
(In Sydney, Australia)
 
Clynt - I've sent you a preliminary reply by PM, but here's a reply to your tree question...

Elizabeth COHEN was (as far as I can tell) the fifth of six children of Moses "Morris" Joseph COHEN and Isabella Jacobs JONES.
Moses "Morris" Joseph COHEN was (as far as I can tell) the fourth of seven children of Joseph COHEN and Elizabeth BENJAMIN. Hannah COHEN was his elder sister, and wife of Nathaniel Joseph LYONS - and they were the parents of the Joseph LYONS.
i.e. Elizabeth COHEN's father's elder sister was mother of Joseph LYONS.

You'll find it worthwhile to trawl the Trove newspaper archives in Australia. there are a number of mentions of family events there - some with quite a bit of detail.

Christine
 
Last edited:
Have just realised - (Julia) Alice MARKS, was almost certainly named for her father's late younger sister (Julia Alice MARKS) who had died, aged only 15, in 1885.

And teh Old Bailey Wiki entry is my handiwork - I'd forgotten about that!

Christine
 
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