Ok lets put all these discussions into proper order..in a world where pubs are closing at a rate of knots the gaffer here has improved and innovated what was a run down boozer into a top and I mean top pub in Birmingham. So much so that it crops up in tourist info blogs around the world indeed some guys booked a cheap flight over from Paris had a weekend mainly in the pub and were so impressed they may come back for another weekend!. Although this is a history site and I love it, one has to be aware of rose tinted specs with history, a lot of the good old days were nothing of the sort and for me you can keep the crappy often dirty pubs of yore. Ok so its not cheap but you do get what you pay for and times move on even if some of us get left behind. Odds are without the changes we would have a boarded up up building or, worse the pink abomination that is the former Gothic or the windblown and now tree shorn Duke of York. It's a no brainer..celebrate the past but enjoy a good meal and pint at the Clifden..onwards and upwards...bloody hell bet that starts a discussion!!!!