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Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Hi Rosie - good news indeed!
There area a few of the larger Common Graves in C Section, Key Hill, that now lie under or partly under the extra retaining wall abutments on the corner of Key Hill Drive - as far we know, there were movement of remains, just the dumping of the headstones that would have been on them! The remains of a 4 section grave are visible at the corner of the wall, the others were round the corner toward the Metro wall.
The Key Hill & Warstone lane folders which I typed out in Alphabetical order - hopefully still available to peruse in the Pen Museum, were done for exactly that reason - it's easy to turn a page and see variations in spelling at a glance!
It's always worth check variations if you cannot spot them immediately.
Brian
There area a few of the larger Common Graves in C Section, Key Hill, that now lie under or partly under the extra retaining wall abutments on the corner of Key Hill Drive - as far we know, there were movement of remains, just the dumping of the headstones that would have been on them! The remains of a 4 section grave are visible at the corner of the wall, the others were round the corner toward the Metro wall.
The Key Hill & Warstone lane folders which I typed out in Alphabetical order - hopefully still available to peruse in the Pen Museum, were done for exactly that reason - it's easy to turn a page and see variations in spelling at a glance!
It's always worth check variations if you cannot spot them immediately.
Brian
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Key hill was a slog, but Warstone was the mammoth task - almost 106,000!
Many months of an hour or so every night!
Hopefully it's something which will be of use for a long time to come!
Am managing now to do work on my own family tree, but with over 64 lines to track between the Wife and I - I think I could almost fill a Cemetery myself with them all!
Brian
Many months of an hour or so every night!
Hopefully it's something which will be of use for a long time to come!
Am managing now to do work on my own family tree, but with over 64 lines to track between the Wife and I - I think I could almost fill a Cemetery myself with them all!
Brian
hi bri..its nice to know that you are now doing something for yourself after all the years spent helping others...good luck with your family research...should keep you out of trouble for a while lol..oh just as an aside bri ive started a thread for little king st and posted all my photos...
lyn
lyn
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W
Wendy
Guest
It seems a tree at Key Hill Cemetery has been felled. The photo is care of the JQRG.Nice big tree Wendy what's going on are they doing another cleareanes of the old com like ickneild street
The tree looked healthy do we still have cleaning up brigade down there still or is it only corporation worked how much will that cost
Best wishes astonian,,,,,,,,
The tree looked healthy do we still have cleaning up brigade down there still or is it only corporation worked how much will that cost
Best wishes astonian,,,,,,,,
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
I think the tree blew down about 6 weeks ago - It was lying across the path, blocking it for access, from the Catacombs to the Petrol Station as I passed through en route Ladywood.
There was a period some years ago when there was a tree blew 4 years running (not the same tree!)
I was very surprised at the shallow root system for such a large tree - most are of the big 'uns are now 105 years old approx.!
Being sandy soil, and the trees being top heavy, due to lack of regular lopping (costs too much), it is fortunate that so few come down.
2 of them caused damage to headstones, which, of course, is never made good by the Council.
I didn't stop to check damage in in the area around Joe Chamberlain, where this was lying as I was on my way to an appointment.
Must try and look next time I am aroun d.
Brian
There was a period some years ago when there was a tree blew 4 years running (not the same tree!)
I was very surprised at the shallow root system for such a large tree - most are of the big 'uns are now 105 years old approx.!
Being sandy soil, and the trees being top heavy, due to lack of regular lopping (costs too much), it is fortunate that so few come down.
2 of them caused damage to headstones, which, of course, is never made good by the Council.
I didn't stop to check damage in in the area around Joe Chamberlain, where this was lying as I was on my way to an appointment.
Must try and look next time I am aroun d.
Brian
Hi Brian many thanks for your information you have provided for us I can understand why they fell down as I know that patch very well
Myself I have photos of the cats and of his grave memorial they are quite old as you say do we still get volunteers from our forum
The bhf as if ever needed I would like to get involved and come along and do some kind of work around there
I have always had an interest in key hill and the ickneild street and the war stone lane over the years gone by I have spent a lot of time in those cems
In my younger days for various reasons as l only lived up by spring hill many years ago and I went to ickneild street on the old
Shockley brook days years before any alteration of the old brook and years before Samuels ever moved in and the bridge ever built
I know the very area very well like the back of my hand
The reason I did say about council clearing because I recall the old front of these cems and I recall the very time I they started slowly thinning them out
And eventually they cleared the whole ,lot which I could have excepted a lot was very old from 16/17 hundreds at that time so no relatives would have been around
So I can understand that reason
Brian can you tell me what ever happened to the old bones of those peoples whom grave was removed where did they put else where or not
Or you do not sure your self or is the grounds just turfed over like at Yardley wood
I tracked down my grand mothers grave from them
She was burried. With no head stone and its just a well preserved patch between to other graves that's why I asked the question
Once again many thanks astonian,,,,,,Alan,,,,,,
Myself I have photos of the cats and of his grave memorial they are quite old as you say do we still get volunteers from our forum
The bhf as if ever needed I would like to get involved and come along and do some kind of work around there
I have always had an interest in key hill and the ickneild street and the war stone lane over the years gone by I have spent a lot of time in those cems
In my younger days for various reasons as l only lived up by spring hill many years ago and I went to ickneild street on the old
Shockley brook days years before any alteration of the old brook and years before Samuels ever moved in and the bridge ever built
I know the very area very well like the back of my hand
The reason I did say about council clearing because I recall the old front of these cems and I recall the very time I they started slowly thinning them out
And eventually they cleared the whole ,lot which I could have excepted a lot was very old from 16/17 hundreds at that time so no relatives would have been around
So I can understand that reason
Brian can you tell me what ever happened to the old bones of those peoples whom grave was removed where did they put else where or not
Or you do not sure your self or is the grounds just turfed over like at Yardley wood
I tracked down my grand mothers grave from them
She was burried. With no head stone and its just a well preserved patch between to other graves that's why I asked the question
Once again many thanks astonian,,,,,,Alan,,,,,,
W
Wendy
Guest
Thanks Brian I thought it was probably maintenance, was it the tree the woodpeckers nested in? I knew this one was a bit fragile. I don't get down there much these days. Must make another visit.
This is tree damage from 2005 so sad.
This is tree damage from 2005 so sad.
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Hi Astonian,
I don't get so involved these days - have actually ceased my volunteering to do some of the thing's I wanted to do when I retired.
I am researching all the lines of mine & my wife's family tree - that's a lot of great, great, great grandparents - and even more cousins - think I go up to 5th cousins and about 4 times removed at present, and still adding a family a day.
Also managing to catch up on my reading - my unread shelf used to be between 3-6ft, but grew to several shelves - now about 12 ft of books!
I've had to shift a few hundred of the read ones into the attic to make more space! - and I plan to re-read those some time again as well!
I rarely get down Hockley way now, but when I do I still go into Key Hill from key Hill, out onto Icknield St, into Warstone Lane off Icknield St and out into Pitsford St, than via the clock and either Warstone Lane or Frederick St to get to Ladywood and Hagley Road. There appears to be some clearing still occurring in KH, branches are tidied up and stacked at rear, though no bonfires have been had to burn it all. The Ivy and the self seeded tree's are spreading again. When I used to visit on my bike, I always carried my secateurs, and clipped a bit off here & there - it all helps!
The Council do not appear to have cut back on the grass cutting - I thought they may reduce the frequency - but the continual use of motor mowers appear to caused more subsidence where there are vaults - the weight cracks the slabs over the vaults which fall into the grave, leaving only 2-3 feet of soil, this eventually gives way creating dangerous holes. The Council rarely do any work themselves, and the grounds staff at Handsworth have little interest in KH or WL, although they are under pressure as Handsworth is open 7 days a week, and a lot of Muslim funerals have barely 24 hours notice, so they are very busy there.
I understand tours are still advertised, claiming a clear up will occur before the tour, but there were rarely any takers.
Many graves have no headstone - just grass, others had the headstone buried - over a dozen of these have been dug up and resited above ground. There was no disturbance of bodies involved. The bodies are 6 ft under, the headstones are buried (usually) within the top 1-2 ft. I notice another has been up on the frontage of Icknield St - when they put cameras down the drains the other year - it was found to be blocking the pipe, so I assume it has no been dug up and put on the surface to prevent the drain continually flooding.
This was part of the Conservation management Plan.
The only disturbance was the Metro. The are was carefully dug over and sifted (so official records go), although it would not have been as thorough as a Time Team dig! All remains were cre mated at Yardley. Notices were placed in the Mail at the time, and relatives who got in touch were given the opportunity to have remains (unclear if bones or ashes) to be buried elsewhere. The rest was buried behind the memorial wall at the back of the cemetery. The names of those listed in the grave deed book were recorded on the wall. There are many error and omissions - including all the public graves - where the names were not listed in the grave deed book - no one went through the actual Register's to check who was buried in those graves.
As far as I can recall the dead tree was not a wood pecker tree, but they moved tree's at least 3 times in KH, and have used WL as well - They don't seem to like re-using nests or is it that the squirrels take them over once they depart for the winter holidays?
Brian
I don't get so involved these days - have actually ceased my volunteering to do some of the thing's I wanted to do when I retired.
I am researching all the lines of mine & my wife's family tree - that's a lot of great, great, great grandparents - and even more cousins - think I go up to 5th cousins and about 4 times removed at present, and still adding a family a day.
Also managing to catch up on my reading - my unread shelf used to be between 3-6ft, but grew to several shelves - now about 12 ft of books!
I've had to shift a few hundred of the read ones into the attic to make more space! - and I plan to re-read those some time again as well!
I rarely get down Hockley way now, but when I do I still go into Key Hill from key Hill, out onto Icknield St, into Warstone Lane off Icknield St and out into Pitsford St, than via the clock and either Warstone Lane or Frederick St to get to Ladywood and Hagley Road. There appears to be some clearing still occurring in KH, branches are tidied up and stacked at rear, though no bonfires have been had to burn it all. The Ivy and the self seeded tree's are spreading again. When I used to visit on my bike, I always carried my secateurs, and clipped a bit off here & there - it all helps!
The Council do not appear to have cut back on the grass cutting - I thought they may reduce the frequency - but the continual use of motor mowers appear to caused more subsidence where there are vaults - the weight cracks the slabs over the vaults which fall into the grave, leaving only 2-3 feet of soil, this eventually gives way creating dangerous holes. The Council rarely do any work themselves, and the grounds staff at Handsworth have little interest in KH or WL, although they are under pressure as Handsworth is open 7 days a week, and a lot of Muslim funerals have barely 24 hours notice, so they are very busy there.
I understand tours are still advertised, claiming a clear up will occur before the tour, but there were rarely any takers.
Many graves have no headstone - just grass, others had the headstone buried - over a dozen of these have been dug up and resited above ground. There was no disturbance of bodies involved. The bodies are 6 ft under, the headstones are buried (usually) within the top 1-2 ft. I notice another has been up on the frontage of Icknield St - when they put cameras down the drains the other year - it was found to be blocking the pipe, so I assume it has no been dug up and put on the surface to prevent the drain continually flooding.
This was part of the Conservation management Plan.
The only disturbance was the Metro. The are was carefully dug over and sifted (so official records go), although it would not have been as thorough as a Time Team dig! All remains were cre mated at Yardley. Notices were placed in the Mail at the time, and relatives who got in touch were given the opportunity to have remains (unclear if bones or ashes) to be buried elsewhere. The rest was buried behind the memorial wall at the back of the cemetery. The names of those listed in the grave deed book were recorded on the wall. There are many error and omissions - including all the public graves - where the names were not listed in the grave deed book - no one went through the actual Register's to check who was buried in those graves.
As far as I can recall the dead tree was not a wood pecker tree, but they moved tree's at least 3 times in KH, and have used WL as well - They don't seem to like re-using nests or is it that the squirrels take them over once they depart for the winter holidays?
Brian
W
Wendy
Guest
Thanks for the reply about the tree Brian. I didn't realise the woodpeckers used different trees. I only remember the great pile of sawdust and watching them go in and out of the small hole. Good luck with your family tree.
Hi Brian
Many thanks for your reply I also have to agree with Wendy I never knew about the wood pecker problem nor of the nesting I have seen the squirrels
Knocking about from time to time thou
On the subject of hands worth cemetery I am fully aware of what the staff are up against I do have an insider whom as kept me up
To date issues regarding the Muslims its Ben going on for years with there I call demands I believe they have bought
A part of the. Cemetery many years ago know and to be quite honest they have made it there own now encrounching foot by foot
That is not a political remark by me saying that either its a fact of life if you go visiting there at the rear end you would see the Asian family's
Plots they do have the same right as any other person to be hurried there and they certainly do restspect there family graves may I say
In Sutton Coldfield com next to the hospital I go there quite often and it really is well maintained my wife's father is hurried
Along with sisters and nieces whom we go every month there is a few in visited graves there where island clearing and cleaning and putting flowers on
For these deceaced people they had not been touched in years as you say I have seen km WS cems in time gone by
Total desgrated and sunk and not attendants since1800 through to today's year sadly it happen end does it
Well Brian keep up those things you want to do with your retirement and I know over the years which is ten years I have been on here you have worked hard on those cems for everybody many thanks alan. Astonian,,,,,,,
Many thanks for your reply I also have to agree with Wendy I never knew about the wood pecker problem nor of the nesting I have seen the squirrels
Knocking about from time to time thou
On the subject of hands worth cemetery I am fully aware of what the staff are up against I do have an insider whom as kept me up
To date issues regarding the Muslims its Ben going on for years with there I call demands I believe they have bought
A part of the. Cemetery many years ago know and to be quite honest they have made it there own now encrounching foot by foot
That is not a political remark by me saying that either its a fact of life if you go visiting there at the rear end you would see the Asian family's
Plots they do have the same right as any other person to be hurried there and they certainly do restspect there family graves may I say
In Sutton Coldfield com next to the hospital I go there quite often and it really is well maintained my wife's father is hurried
Along with sisters and nieces whom we go every month there is a few in visited graves there where island clearing and cleaning and putting flowers on
For these deceaced people they had not been touched in years as you say I have seen km WS cems in time gone by
Total desgrated and sunk and not attendants since1800 through to today's year sadly it happen end does it
Well Brian keep up those things you want to do with your retirement and I know over the years which is ten years I have been on here you have worked hard on those cems for everybody many thanks alan. Astonian,,,,,,,
barry boustead
New Member
Hi not sure if this needs to be a new post or whatever ?? sorry
I am trying to find the plot of grave 0976 warstone lane cemetry where my great uncle was buried on the 20th june 1956.
by rev J Johnson
He gave his body to the Birmingham University for medical science
He died 2 years prior to burial
his body has since been exhumed and moved to st Michaels church Boldmere
any help would be much appreciated.
regards
Barry
I am trying to find the plot of grave 0976 warstone lane cemetry where my great uncle was buried on the 20th june 1956.
by rev J Johnson
He gave his body to the Birmingham University for medical science
He died 2 years prior to burial
his body has since been exhumed and moved to st Michaels church Boldmere
any help would be much appreciated.
regards
Barry
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Yes Wendy, the following year they used on by the Key Hill entrance, and the following year they moved into WL! Never read up on it find out why, though.
Sadly when the tree's all and damage headstones, they say the grave owners should have insurance to cover it - but the tree falling is due to lack of mtce by the Council!
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Section O is against the wall that backed on to the Mint - the left hand half as you look down hill.
Many were public graves whose occupants run into 3 figures - none with headstones - they were the 'cheap seats' of the day - ie - for ordinary working class people with more bills than wages.... Most are overgrown with self seeded trees now.
Many were public graves whose occupants run into 3 figures - none with headstones - they were the 'cheap seats' of the day - ie - for ordinary working class people with more bills than wages.... Most are overgrown with self seeded trees now.
W
Wendy
Guest
This is a lovely old photo of Key Hill Cemetery in Hockley. In the foreground are glass flower domes. The flowers were usually ceramic and covered by a glass dome sometimes a wire mesh dome covered the glass to protect it. I have seen
these recently in a cemetery in Wales
.
these recently in a cemetery in Wales
.
Shortie
master brummie
This photograph shows Section S of the cemetery which can be clearly seen if one enlarges the photograph. Current beliefs have Section S at the top near the new memorial, but this shows that to be incorrect. This is the section in which my gt grandmother was buried in 1896. Some years ago I owned one of these domes, but unfortunately, the flowers had faded badly. The flowers were made of wax and were thick, but when I had it they were only a dark yellow colour.
rosie
brummie
I love this photo Wendy!
My Grandad's sister Mary Ann Sharp was buried there, Public grave S17. She was young and had T.B. Her name is on one of the memorials that was moved up "on top".
Is it true that only the private graves were exhumed, and the public ones built over for the Metro? So many people in each one! My Gt. Grandmother Emma Sharp is on the Metro Screen as she had a private grave.
rosie.
My Grandad's sister Mary Ann Sharp was buried there, Public grave S17. She was young and had T.B. Her name is on one of the memorials that was moved up "on top".
Is it true that only the private graves were exhumed, and the public ones built over for the Metro? So many people in each one! My Gt. Grandmother Emma Sharp is on the Metro Screen as she had a private grave.
rosie.
W
Wendy
Guest
Another interesting memorial from Key Hill Cemetery. I wonder if the window is still in Aston Church?
In loving memory of Maria wife of George PERKS, the Grange, Perry Barr and second daughter of the late Joseph GILLOTT who died July 7th 1883 aged 55 years. "My presence shall go with thee and I will give thee rest." (Side): In memory of George PERKS, the Grange, Perry Barr who died December 26th 1892 aged 68 years. "Have mercy on me o God, after thy great goodness: answering to the multitude of they mercies do away mine offences." Psalms LI VI. He bequeathed a sum of money for a memorial stained window & for the restoration of the West end of the South aisle of Aston Church as a monument to the memory of his wife Maria & himself.
In loving memory of Maria wife of George PERKS, the Grange, Perry Barr and second daughter of the late Joseph GILLOTT who died July 7th 1883 aged 55 years. "My presence shall go with thee and I will give thee rest." (Side): In memory of George PERKS, the Grange, Perry Barr who died December 26th 1892 aged 68 years. "Have mercy on me o God, after thy great goodness: answering to the multitude of they mercies do away mine offences." Psalms LI VI. He bequeathed a sum of money for a memorial stained window & for the restoration of the West end of the South aisle of Aston Church as a monument to the memory of his wife Maria & himself.
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Hi Rosie,
Virtually 3 whole rows were excavated - all graves were done within the affected area, and all remains cremated at Yardley, and returned for reburial above the Catacombs.
Sadly the cheapskates went through the Grave Deed Register - which list the owners of graves, and should contain all the burials therein - and used that as the basis of the |slate Memorial tablets. Correspondence with families listed and research of the actual Burial Register has proven that some Burials, were not written into the Grave Deed Book (Sloppy admin - unusual for KH!), so there are known burials not recorded. Because Public graves are just shown as that in the Grave Deed Book - there are no individual interments listed thereunder), there are no Public Burials listed. The Grave Deed Book is mainly so they know when the grave is full up. It wouldn't have cost the Developers much more to have someone go through the actual Burial Registers and list ALL the burials in the affected Graves - both Private & Public - However - they would have needed another 3 tablets, and maybe more!
Brian
rosie
brummie
Thanks Brian, I hope you are well, we don't go to the Cemeteries as much now, OH had major surgery before just Christmas with more to come.
I've often wondered if they really bothered with the public graves, knowing they are/were so deep.
I had been searching the registers for Gt. Grandfather (Emma's husband) I finally searched for alternative spelling...which I should have done years ago...and there he was with an "E" on the end!!
rosie.
I've often wondered if they really bothered with the public graves, knowing they are/were so deep.
I had been searching the registers for Gt. Grandfather (Emma's husband) I finally searched for alternative spelling...which I should have done years ago...and there he was with an "E" on the end!!
rosie.
Jayell
master brummie
Brian, could I ask you whereabouts I would find these burials in Key Hill? My 3 x gt.grandmother (Emelia Mackain) was buried in 1867 in Corridor 2 Vault and I would love to visit as soon as I can. I have other family members in G3 Vault/G2 Vault and H10 Vault. Although I grew up not far from Key Hill I have never visited and only recently discovered that I have family members buried there. I'm now in Devon but hope to get to Key Hill next time I am in Brum. If you could give me a rough guide to where these are it would be great.
Judy
Judy
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Hi Rosie,
Hope your Surgery was effective and not too much trouble.
I only pop in occasionally nowadays if I'm passing and have time, but usually go through both and out the other end!
Finally managed to work on my own family tree, using Ancestry and have gone wide as well as up/down, but not too much detail, just Births, Baptism's, Marriages and Deaths! I know how tricky it is looking for Burials............
The alternate spelling was the reason I spent many, many weeks cutting & pasting the BMSGH Burial indexes - hope the books are still available in the Pen Room - so much easier to turn a page or two and compare variation's in spelling, than try and guess what other versions there may be. Glad you got there in the end!
Brian
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Hi Judy, I no longer have all the papers I had when I was in the Friends, left them in the cemetery for those who followed on, but the Catacombs in Key Hill are, as you may recall, all in a long line at ground level (unlike WL where they are in a tiered horseshoe shape) - although the earlier Vaults are on the wall to the left of the 'doorway' catacombs.
Colin Giles had stencilled blue bricks with the vault number on which were placed in each of the Catacomb 'doorways' - They should all still be there.
From memory, some G's and H's are the older Vaults, under the wall - there were some surviving headstones on the wall, and all had their numbers in chalk, but which have probably been washed out. The Surviving headstones have their numbers in the top corners - but be careful when walking over the soil to reach them - the soil is the visible remainder of the later 1950's Vaults, overlaid with surplus soil from the Metro excavations and are/were still prone to local subsidence. I'm sure somewhere on the forum was the plan of the Catacombs with their numbers - Leslam will be able to put her finger on it, no doubt.
The corridor vaults at KH are under the 'doorway' vaults - there are almost no known plans for these - some info in Library on the Architects drawings, and Mr Manning, did start to catalogue the internal vaults, but didn't get far, if surviving notebooks at Handsworth are all there is.
WL also has corridor vaults - there is obviously some sort of network behind the 'doorways' in WL, and side corridors off the main central 'doorway' which led to below the church where the Bramah lift was - Any associated paperwork or details is probably lost in the C of E Diocese records somewhere.
If you are here, on a sunny day - than it's a pleasant stroll - you can drive into/through and park within both Cemeteries.
Like you, I lived in the area for many years - it's a small part that hasn't really changed very much - except there is no chapel now....!
Brian
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Wendy,
According to my Church guide book (about 5+ years old now), there are 5 windows in the South Aisle - all 'bested viewed on a sunny day'.
The last (5th) is the risen Christ appearing to Mary Magdalene on the first Easter morning. It was given in memory of George and Mary Paerks(?!) of Perry Barr, and is dated December 26th 1892. so it should still be there.
Brian
Jayell
master brummie
Brian. Thank you so much for your detailed information on the whereabouts of certain burials at Key Hill. I do appreciate your taking the time to answer. I have a feeling I did see a plan of KH at one time but I guess if I copied it it has been lost now. However I have saved your reply and will take it with me when I visit, although this could be a few months! I grew up in Handsworth,, just off Soho Hill, and as children after the war, we often played in the bombed out buildings in the Jewellery Quarter. I wish I had known more about my family when I lived in the area and had the opportunity to look for places! Anyway, thanks again for your help.
Judy
Judy