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Key hill cemetery burial 1866

Steve Crathorn

Steve Crathorn

master brummie
I have information to hand that a Joseph Bywater was buried around the 12 June 1866. The burial register number was 19484/291. The grave is located in section P and is number 291. I am trying to find out if there is anyone else buried with him, and does the grave have a memoriol, please.

Thanks

Steve
 
Hi Steve I will try and get the information for you. I am sure I have seen that name on a memorial the reason I remember it is I had a friend with the same surname. My family graves are in Section P as well. I will let you know if I get the info. Wendy.
 
Thanks Wendy that would be marvellous, and if there is a memoriol that would be an added bonus.

Joseph , i believe, died on the 8th June 1866.

Thanks again

Steve
 
Steve I have just checked and your grave is two rows back right behind my family graves. Here is an old photo taken before my grave was found at the foot of the tree behind me. Your grave could be one in the background.

If Keyhill Brian reads this he may go and look for you.

I have asked my friend for the info on the burials for you.:)
 
Well, there is no record of the memorial being removed in 1954 - I have not got an absolutely complete list, but I have a list of most of the removed stones, including Section P, and no Bywater there. I hope the memorial still stands.
 
Hi,

There appears to be only two Bywaters buried in Key Hill.

Joseph Bywater 1866 ( 3 in a Grave ) Ref: 4-4035

Mary Bywater 1887 ( 3 in a Grave ) Ref: 5-5584

If a memorial exsists may show third persons name, I sure Wendy & Key Hill Brian will do their best for you.
 
Bo

The references you give - do they have a dash in them? They are not a reference to any grave, but they could be burial numbers. The graves are prefixed with letters, not numbers.
 
I shall be popping in there tomorrow (just for a change), but not till late lunch - got some runningabout to do first.

Will have a look behind Wendy for P291, but usually ref no.s with a slash are not grave numbers, unless you were given the grave no. and wrote it that way.

If it's not there, I'll pop up to the Tourist Info - Mary Edwards there has a disk with names, adtes & grave no.s for Key Hill.

They are not cutting her out till Easter Sunday - part of the cutbacks - all indians & no chiefs to go, I suppose!
 
Thanks to everyone who has contributed some very interesting comments. Good hunting to-morrow Key Hill Brian, i hope that if the grave has a memorial, it will be readable. I look forward to hearing from you

Thanks again everybody.

Steve
 
Steve, I do hope you the grave you are looking for. Wendy and Key Hil Brian are experts when it comes to Grave hunting at Key Hill so if it is there I am sure they will find it.
I am keeping my fingers crossed for you that it has a memorial that you will be able to read.
Polly :)
 
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Hi Steve, just been to KH and it is by Wendys - just as well because Info Office is closed today.

It is in memory of Joseph Bywater, died June 8th 1866, aged 75 years. Also mary, his daughter who died 9th September 1887, aged 70 years. Also Caroline sanders, grand-daughter of Joseph Bywaters, died 29th December 1894 aged 50 years.

The memorial has been laid down, but the base seems secure in the ground. It would require drilling 2 holes & inserting 2 stainless steel rods into bottom of memorial which go into two holes to be drilled into base. It should not be too costly or difficult to have stood up again, should you so desire.

If you enter via Icknield St gate, turn right cross grass to last tree before Metro wall, face left & you will see Wendy's restored headstone (Flat on floor), yours is a couple of rows behind & to the right.

Sorry I do not have a camera to give you a picture. I'm sure Wendy or another forumeer (is that a word for forum members?) will oblige when they are in the area.

Failing that - there is a guided tour Sun 14th March 2-4
 
Just logged on. A million thanks Brian. Really good to know that the memorial is still there allbeit lying down. I will definitely have to get up there and have a look, but would appreciate anyone being able to take a photo for me.

Thanks to everyone for your help and support. A great result.

Steve
 
I was at Warstone Lane this morning, so I thought I would pop to Key Hill to take the photo for you. Key Hill Brain was driving by as I was wrestling with the gates (hadn't spotted the side gate!), so he stopped and showed me where the memorial was. It is always useful to have a knowledgeable guide, so thanks Brian!

So, here are the photos of the memorial. In fact it was a bit too sunny, so there is a shadow across the photo. A bright but sunless day would probably produce a better photo. The memorial itself seems in good repair, apart from the fact that it has been laid flat. The inscription is very clear.
 
leslam, what great photos - I am sure Steve will be thrilled with them - what a lovely headstone and as you say the words are very clear, even in the sunshine!:)
It is a shame it is lying down, but a lot of them in Key Hill are (thanks to the council). Brian and Colin (another person who does an incredible amount of work at Key Hill) have spent a lot of time getting the 'down' headstones on the right graves and also slanting them a little to ensure the rain runs of them - some of the stones/inscriptions have been damaged by rain water 'sitting' on them. Some are ok, I think it can depend on the quality of the stone used to make the headstone in the first place. Luckily for Steve this memorial is in good condition.
Next time I am at Key Hill I must go and have a look at this grave.
Polly :)
 
Wow, thanks leslam. I can't thank-you enough for what you have done. To take time out and take the photos was very kind of you. I can't get over how clear the wording is considering it is exposed to the elements. Truly magnificent. Thanks also to Key Hill Brian for being on hand to help you find the grave.

I'm going to have to get up there in the near future and take a look for myself. Once again, thanks everyone

Regards

Steve
 
Hi leslam,

I don't always do an emergency stop when I see a women hovering around outside my Cemetery, but I'm glad I made an exception this morning, the pics have come out superb.

Steve should be well pleased

Brian
 
Here is the info from the burial register I hope you can follow it. If not send me an IM with your email and I will send it in a better format.:)




Date of interment
Running No.
No. of Grave.
Depth Feet.
Name of Deceased.
Parents’ name, Relative or principal Connexion.
Last Residence.
Age.
Disorder
Officiating Minister’s

Signature

13 Jun 1866
19484
P 291
9
Joseph BYWATER
Mary BYWATER
Ludgate Hill
75
Pneumonia
John Braine

13 Sep 1887
33563
P 291
reopened
Mary BYWATER

3 Ludgate Hill
70

John Edmonds

3 Jan 1895
39005
P 291
reopened
Caroline SANDERS

3 Ludgate Hill
50

John Edmonds

In loving memory of Joseph BYWATER who departed this life June 8th 1886 aged 75 years. Also Mary daughter of the above who died September 7th 1887 aged 70 years. Also Caroline SANDERS grand daughter of the above Joseph BYWATER who died December 29th 1894 aged 50 years. Plinth: “Thy will be done.”


Decorated headstone with side columns, deep single tier layered plinth and single tier base with footstone.
 
My dear friend Colin Giles who helps Brian got these obituaries from the library for you.
Birmingham Journal. June 11th 1866 on the 8th inst of Pneumonia age 75 Mr Joseph Bywater for 53 years resident of Ludgate Hill in this town. Confectioner and Grocer no 3 Ludgate Hill.
Birmingham Post Sept 12 1887 Bywater 9th inst after a short illness. Mary daughter of the late Joseph Bywater no 3 Ludgate Hill.

He had a look for a will record but could not find one. Hope this is of interest Wendy.
 
The amount of information and help given to members of this site never fails to amaze me. what a wonderful team we have!
Well done to everyone involved with this request for help.
Polly :)
 
Hi Steve Crathorn I could not send this in private so very sorry for putting this on this thread . Its still a lovely photo .
 
Many thanks Wendy, Colin, Brian and everyone connected with pulling together all of this information. Thank you one and all.

Kind regards

Steve
 
Re: Key hill cemetery burial 1866. From Stephen Johnson

to wendy
Hello! My name is Stephen Johnson. I have just joined this forum about Birmingham History. To my total surprise amd amazement I discovered your mesage and photo about Joseph Bywater who is buried in Key Hill Cemetary.

Joseph is my 4 x great grandfather. His son William Henry Bywater born in 1829 is my 3 x g g who left for India with the East India Company Army (Madras Army) in 1847. He died out there in March 1866. In those days it took about 3 months for the mail to arrive back in England - I strongly believe his son's death affected Joseph's health and was a major factor in his death on 8th June 1866.

I noticed you have been in contact with Steve Crathorne. I recently contacted his website about the Birmingham Crathorne - Joseph's wife Mary was a Crathorne before she married Joseph in 1812.

Birmingham council wrote to me informing me of the location of Joseph's grave and I am planning a trip up there next month. They could not confirm to me whether there was a headstone present - but thanks to you I now know there is. So thank you very much!

However, I intend to consult with the council about possibly re-erecting the headstone especially since Joseph's desendents are now going to be visiting him over 140 years after his death - something he probably would never have envisaged.

I am wondering if you have any special connection to this or why Steve Crathorne mentioned my ancestor's grave. I did inform him that he was buried at Key Hill in one of my emails to Andy Tasker who contacted me. The details I supplied are now on a special page of the Crathorne Website (India).

I read in the meassges posted about Joseph's will and whether there was one. I can confirm that there was indeed a will - I have copy - but that it was not proved until several months after Joseph's death. However, his will is rather sad and revealing in parts. He bitterly mentioned that he only had two of his daughters stood by him until his end which is an indication of family disputes and arguments. My ancestor, his son William Henry Bywater left his father only one year after the death of Mary Bywater his wife (died Oct 1845). William arrived in London on 27.12.1846 to join up the East India Co. Army. Its just 2 days after Christmas and only 5 days before the New Year and he chose not to be with his father.
Anyway, Mary Bywater his unmarried daughter basically inherited the lot since the other daughter mentioned in the will was already dead by the time the will was proved. She is the Mary Bywater in the grave. I have her will too and it shows that she ran a sweetshop but had over £800. Her assets was given to other members of the Bywater family she was in contact with - but not my lot who were out in India.

Since Mary Bywater, Joseph's wife died in 1845, I believe that her burial records lie with St. Pauls, Birmingham but that her remains may have been removed at some stage when building work commenced with the development of Birmingham.

Well thankyou again for the info you have provided about my ancestor. I live in Notting Hill, London. I have been up to Birmingham Archives a few times already but I am definitely planning a trip in April

Best wishes

Stephen Johnson
 
Hello and welcome Steve.What a fascinating family history you have. I can also see you have done a lot of research. The reason I knew about your family grave was because it was so near to mine. If you haven't visited the grave I strongly recommend it as it's a beautiful place. I have recently had two family graves restored so I can tell you the procedure. The cemetery records are kept at Handsworth Cemetery and this is where you have to apply for permission to have it re erected. There has been an ongoing project at the cemetery to raise headstones that have either fallen or been laid down by Health and Safety. I think the Bywater grave sadly comes under the latter. The Friends of Key Hill and Warstone Lane Cemeteries have helped me a lot with the restoration of my graves. If you contact Dick Empson on the website I know he will help you. https://www.fkwc.org/index.html. There is a form which you have to fill in and sign. I am sure Dick will help with this. If you need any more help don't hesitate to contact me.
Best wishes Wendy.
 
If you scroll back to the photo on post #4 click on the photo you will see the Bywater headstone standing up in the background on the right just to the left of my head. This photo was taken before Health and Safety descended on the place It is a lovely memorial and this also proves it was laid down.
 
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Stephen, Welcome to the site. How lovely for you to see a picture of your 4x GGrandfather's headstone on this site. Key Hill is definitely worth a visit, it is a little oasis of peace and history in an area that is otherwise quite built up. The headstone seems very clear and ornate and would look lovely standing back up as Wendys photo shows it. If you visit the grave, maybe some of us (friends of Key Hill) could meet you there. Some of us have family graves there ourselves, but we are interested in all the graves and the family stories attatched to them as it brings the cemetery to life (!) Your family story seems very interesting. One of my family graves has had the headstone lay down and I am hoping to have it put back up in the near future.
Polly :)
 
Hi Stephen - what a surprise to find Steve Crathorne has been on about your relative. It just shows benefits of a Forum such as this.
The headstone is a good quality stone, but the joint between base & headstone had probably weakened, which is why it was pushed over - thank goodness it wasn't broke in two as so many were.
The base itself seems solid, so restoration is only a metter of drilling and inserting 2 stainless steel rods & cementing.
'The Friends' have an ongoing programme of restoration and would be pleased to handle the paperwork with you if you wish - just follow Wendys lead and speak to Dick.
Their website fkwc.org is worth a peek - you will see some of us, planting bulbs - Wendy & Pollypops are there!
There is also a monthly guided tour - if your visit coincided with one of those - and you let us know on the forum - pherhaps we could all meet up.

I will forward your fascinating history to the Friends for Info, if you don't mind. It's always good to know more of the story behind the stone.

Brian
 
Thanks Wendy for all your information. The older photo you mentioned does as you say show Joseph Bywater's grave in the background.

I intend to visit in mid April - looking at Wed 15th April. I intend to stay overnight in Birmingham so long as its a Wednesday as Thursday is late night opening hours at the Family Records Archive at Birmingham Library. I also intend to contact Dick Empson and hopefully be involved with any campaign to re-erect the headstones. It will prove an interesting challenge to restore the Bywater grave to an upright position. However I do understand the "risk" of obvously a headstone falling over someone. Im sure the council are worried about being sued

But I am hoping the council will agree to restore the headstones in the knowledge that descendents of the deceased will visit - once again! I have absolutely no idea when the grave was last attended by any member of the Bywaters of Birmingham or any other members of my family. It will prove a historic moment in my own family history to visit shortly - it probably safe to assume Joseph Bywater never imagined that in the 21st century he would have his grave visited.

I still cant believe that I came across this forum just days after you did your research work. I remain grateful to all the work and interest you and your friends display. It would be great if I was able to meet up with fellow members when i do visit.

I have included a copy of the 1850 Post Office Directory which lists Joseph Bywater's shop under "Confectioners". Although he started out as a green grocer. What is quite touching is that earlier trade directories listed him just above the Cadbury brothers. I cant help thinking whether Joseph would have known the Cadbury brothers personally while conducting trade.
 
Hello Polly,

thankyou for your response. Im planning a trip on 15th April or possibly later - it has to be a Wednesday so I can be in Birmingham Thursday as its late night opening at the Archives at Birmingham Central Library. I would be honoured to meet the Friends of Key Hill when I come up - not sure how we go about making arrangements to meet though. But let me confirm date I am visiting first. I am looking forward to visiting and laying flowers on the grave - possibly for the first time in 100 years.

Stephen
 
Hello Brian,

Thank you for your response - I found it very interesting what you said and also very helpful because I am interested in asking the council about restoring the headstone to an upright position.

As i mentioned in earlier posts I am incredibly grateful that people like yourself take such an interest in such matters and keen to preserve the headstones.

I have just looked at the Friends website and it has literally taken my breath away. I intend to join.
However I will be contacting Dick Empson about visiting Key Hill and perhaps meet up.

The Friends listing in the "Jewellery" sector of Birmingham has tonight uncovered another mystery for in my family history research covering the Bywaters.

Joseph Bywater (my 4 x g g) had a son William Henry Bywater (my 3 x g g). William was born in 1829 but joined the East India Company Army in London in December 1846. I have a copy of his Recruitment record which is held at the British Library in Kings Cross. Although 18, he listed his profession as a "jeweller".

Now I know why. The family lived in Church Street then Ludgate Hill which I understand is all within the boundaries of St Paul's. I wonder if William Bywater was an apprentice to the many workshops that would have existed in the area at the time.

I will keep reading the posts and also let Dick Empsey know when I will be visiting

Stephen Johnson
 
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