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Jayes Family Stour Street, Springhill, Birmingham

A

Amanda Wright

master brummie
I am researching my fathers family, back in the beginning of 1900's they lived in Stour Street, Brum.
I have many details , but the one thing i really want to find is a photo of my grandmother who died when my father was only 7.
She lived at 4 Stour Street. her name was Ada Rose Jayes
I am hoping there may be one out there somewhere.
Amanda
 
hi amnda
i hope you do not mind me jumping in so soon ; but i spent some of my life in stour street ; and i can recall alot of famlys
also growing up instour street and if i can recall correctly the forth house was four door virtulay thirty yards from the bell pub
which was situated at the bottom of king edwards rd and i lived at 243 and the pub was about twelve doors from
mrs alebones shop from the bell and facing mrs mitchells tuck shop ;i do beleive we have other member on here from as close as that on this forum;
i cannot say if any body is related to your grand mother but you never knowit took me three years on here this great sight
to get a couple of great pictures of my uncles and my great grand mother ; so do not despair ;hang in there and keep in touch with the site
not all our members come on every day like most of us so pleasre do not give up
best wishes astonian ;
 
hi Astonian,
Thankyou . We have no pictures of her at all, a complex story, she died young leaving a young husband and children, he married again and the new wife destroyed all pics they had. i have recently found her grave- my father never knew where she was buried, sadly he died before I found it, but at least after 70+ years of being ignored she now has visitors.
I shall keep checking this site. It looks very interesting indeed.
x
 
Welcome to the forum Amanda :adoration: I expect photographs of people are quite hard to find unless there is a relative or friend of the family that has one.
My mother lost both of her parents when she was only little and I was in my twenties before we managed to find a photograph of her mother - it turned up when a relatives house was cleared out - fortunately one of my mothers older brothers was able to confirm it was their mother. Good Luck with your search, I am keeping my fingers crossed that someone will be able to help you :adoration:
 
Amanda that is so sad that the photos were destroyed in that way. I do hope there are others somewhere. Well done for finding your grandmothers grave - it is sad that your father never knew where it was but at least you are able to visit it now. Is your grandmother in Key Hill or Warstone lane cemetery by any chance? The only reason I ask is because some of the members on this forum are members of the friends of Key Hill and Warstone Lane.
 
Hi, well I thought she would be in Warstone Lane , BUT nope then I just tried all of the cems in the region and found her in Handsworth. we dont know why she was put there, so far away from where she lived, and she was also in a paupers grave with no marking. That again is a mystery as grandad was financially ok then. She now has a marker and each time I'm in brum at my mums we go visit and take flowers. i cant understand why anybody woulld do that can you !!
Funny you mention Warstone though as I am about to start more burial searches and will be contacting them.
 
Good morning amanda
I am very happy to hear that you have found her resting place ; i was just thinking of the cemetry where she may have been taken
and i actualy thought of handsworth myself ; i did not think for one moment it would have been key hill
i actualy thought it may have been witton ; but then i realized it would have been handsworth
for the fact that as i told you that i only lived around the corner from your family in king edwards rd where your stour street was
and all my mates lived up stour street; but never or less ; my consideration of handsworth comes from that my father when growing up
as i did ; my father died in kingedwards rd he was taken along to the handsworth cemetry ; along with my older brother whom i never knew was also burried there ; so hats how i came to figure out handsworth cem; but as you have found out you just pipped me to the pot of announcing it
still i am very happy to hear that you have found her ; i had a cousin whom lived in islinton ;which in the old days of brum which you may not know or you may know is now known as five ways ; which is the top of broad street and hagley rd ; he diedmany years ago when the houses used tobe called courts and yards houses ; he was from a reasonal wealthy family at that period but he was taken to key hill warstone lane and burried in a paupers grave
so really he was closer to home ; i do not know how they work it out as to where people get burried by the system then ;
but i expect its down to undertakers and or family request as it was then in those days
still like i said prevuosly do not dispair ; stay with us and whom one never knows will may just pop up that some one may have a connection
andproduce a pic of your grand motherjust like mine it came from another relative whom i didnot know excisted whom was a membe of the forum ;
and only through this great forum i have persevered and now i have a couple of pics of my long lost uncles and great grand father and mother through it and now i have them framed and sitting on my loungh room wall;
amanda have a nice day and the best of luck ;; astonian; ;;;
 
Hi,
well Handsworth cem is right next door to Sandwell Park Golf course, which is where my Dad was every Sunday for as long as I can remember- and how odd that his mum was just over the road all that time !
When she lived in Stour Street it was in the 'Courts' as you put it.
Ive ordered a few books on the Victorian life in Birmingham, ladywood etc, to get a better image of how they lived back then. Its really gripped me !!
you have a nice day too.:courage:
 
hi amanda ;
nice to hear from you on the site and that you will obtain some books on stour street
you will be amazed of the conditions they had to endure there was a big court yard at the bottom of stour street that was close to the corner of cope street and you could walk up this entry in stour street and you would find your self in a massive court yard
which you could walk around and leave by four exits we used to play foot ball and games and tracking as we called in those days
and have massive bonfires ;once in this mssive court yard you could leave it and come out on cope street and two exits
one left hand the oter right hand into spring field street which tecnoly is the back to backs of stour street
one of birminghams old fire chief officier lived there by the name of mosedale and his children lived there as well ; whom we used to play games with there was a big gang of us in this court yard ; happy browsing amanda please keep ius all posted on any avent of infor in your research ;; alan ;; astonian
 
Hi Amanda,
Mac Joseph has a website about Old Ladywood. It has some pictures of Stour St.
rosie.
 
Hi, I'm sorry I can't be of any help to Amanda, but I thought I'd just mention my family were in Stour Street through the first quarter of the 20th Century, various members in 30, 31 (back), 34 (back), 36 and 37. It's amazing how family members stayed together in the same close proximity. My ancestor John Griffin moved into 9 Crt 30 Stour Street before 1901, then 1 Back 31 by 1911, then to 2 Back 34 by 1918 (formerly occupied by his son-in-law Albert Hollins). Another son-in-law (my grandfather Albert Shelley) took over the house after marriage in 1918 and stayed at 2 Back 34 until the late 1920's. At that time at 36 lived Price Patrick, son-in-law of John Griffin, and at 37 John's son Oscar.
Most of the residences around were occupied by in-laws and other relations, it was a veritable enclave of Shelley's, Griffins, Patricks and Hollins for very many years.
 
Hi Pimpernel
Nice to hear from you :o)
Well I am still looking ...not as yer had any progress re any photographs of my grandmother. But I have found her burial place, and that of both of her parents and one of her brothers.. All in 'public- unmarked' graves...so that was quite an achievement .xxx
I'll keep searching . One day you never know , somebody might read my posts and have a surprise for me.xx
 
Tracing photographs is a tricky thing Amanda - first you need to find a photo (which could be in any condition), then there's the problem of confirming it's actually the person you think it is. If there's no inscription then we have to rely on circumstantial evidence and the memories of those who actually knew the person - these are getting fewer every year! I rely a great deal on my father to confirm the identities of people family photos. He was only 8 when he left Ladywood in the mid 1930's and he's well into his 80's now, without his sharp memories most of our photos would be anonymous.
In your case as the property was Number 4 close to the end of the road I'd look at topographical photos for clues. Comparing property plans against census returns it's clear Number 1 Stour Street was in a back yard accessed from the side of the pub, Number 4 was thus the property before the passage into Court 1, the third along the road after The White Swan pub.

stourstmapNo4.jpg
 
Your grandmother Ada isn't mentioned in the 1901 census in Stour Street, but she is in the 1911 census at number 4. At that time Issac Flavell was the landlord of the White Swan. If you google images you might find some images of the pub that show the properties further up the street. Otherwise Birmingham library may be of help.

Here's a group of people outside the pub, it's just possible your grandmother might be among them?

https://www.search.digital-ladywood...&direction=&pointer=5396&text=0&resource=9171

Hope this is of help!

John
 
i reckon the pub got bombed in WW2, as this picture is claimed to be The White Swan also, but has 2 stories (and evidence of new brickwork on it and the house to the left). this shows the next house to the Swan.



Ladywood2BStour2BSt2BWhite2BSwan.jpg
 
Thankyou Pimpernel and Mike.
The only other line of enquiry I can think of is through her siblings... Ive hand written to every Jayes that I could find in the Birmingham area and had no luck at all.. of those that replied, none of them knew of an Ada Rose in their family history. Its quite a mystery as I would have thought someone would have known her.
Ive found a grave in Handsworth cemetery which has her brother Charles Henry Jayes in it. Its a family grave of the ALLSOPP family- he married an ALLSOPP.
Do you think it is appropriate to write a sealed note and attach it to that grave just incase that family do visit there ...it didnt look untidy so its a possibility.
IIf I could afford it I'd put a huge advert in the Birmingham Mail !!:dejection:
 
Yes, I'm trying to do something similar with my family history research nowadays, having delved deep into the past, I've now switched to focusing very much on the 20thC families in the hope that I can trace living relations with forgotten boxes of photos in their cupboards. Unfortunately in my family at least it seems many of those most likely to have such gems are also the least likely to be online. Younger generations may be more web-savy, but don't have access to (or often interest in) early family photographs. Que La Vie!
I'd try researching your great-grandparents and any siblings of your grandparents. Look for marriages into other families, it's possible descendants have wedding photos etc that your grandmother attended.
 
:strawberry:
Hi Again,
I shall definately take a deeper delve into my Great Grandparents and their branches to see as you said if I can find any relatives that way.
Maybe they all know I'm looking for them and are hiding !!:miserable:
 
Hi Amanda, I should be getting through some deadlines but this has intrigued me so I had a quick dig around - I notice you've a tree on Ancestry and have researched your grandmother's near relations.

Checking the BMD's up to 1921 here are some other possible siblings of your grandmother in addition to the ones on your tree (infants with father Jayes, mother maiden name Price):
Elizabeth Jayes, December qtr 1913 Birmingham 6d 443
May Jayes, December qtr 1918 Birmingham 6d 287
There are other children after 1921 who had father Jayes and mother maiden name Price, its possible Abbot John Jayes remarried another member of the same family after his wife's death. That's exactly what happened in my family, John Griffin, my Stour Street ancestor married Alice Hern, then after she died after giving birth to 3 children he remarried within 6 months her younger sister Ann, who had a further five children by him, the first born exactly 9 months after her sister died!

Also you note that Gladys May Jayes married Charles Kelly. Checking birth entries for children born thereafter with father surname Kelly and mother maiden name Jayes brings up two: Ronald K Kelly (Sept qtr 1939 Birmingham 6d 221), and Brian J Kelly (June qtr 1942 Birmingham 6d 309) - they may very well be still alive if you can trace them.

A potential marriage for Brian J is March qtr 1959, Birmingham 9c 277

Ah, must get back to work! I hope this is of help.

John

 
Hi John :adoration:
Goodness me !! You've sure been busy on my behalf there !!
Thankyou so much for that . I am having a dig about now.
i read your story of your relatives and must admit my eyes nearly popped out ! Wow !!
Quite amazing that is it not !
It amazes me how the elder generations look down upon ' us youngsters' ( using that terminology loosely:star:) , yet from what Ive learnt through researching of late.... the morals way back then were nothing to write home about were they !

xx:frog:
 
Hi Amanda, i had found the same as John, glad i noticed his post saved me typing so much lol. I also found Gladys H 3rd qtr 1916 mmn Price, May 4th qtr 1918, another Gladys 4th qtr 1923 and Eileen 2nd qtr 1927 all mmn Price


bren
 
hi pimp; and mike
just to add abit more tit bit the actual pub was the swan ; and in the remoderenisig of that pub it later became the bell pub by name
yes tey altered the fromtage and refurbished inside as i only lived about 400 yards from that pub
which when you look at that picture to the left hand of the pub ;which is king edwards rd and this is known as the little ling edwards rd
and it,s at the junction of stour street which quite correctly the beginning o stour street and the beginning of spring hill passage
and was the rear end of the steward st school entrance where the care taker mr lumb . and his family lived is ouse was just inside of the school gates
and it was a bending passage so the gate was on a bend with his house and directly next door to him was the big factory called prices the silver cutley
factory for all kitchen and cutley ware which was world well known; even today ;but now its all little independants factory units ;
oppersite there was the adams grand parents the knights l the candilers ; and the frisby family whom later moved to weston rd
directly oppersite the pub ; was the penny sweet shop ran by old mrs mitchell with her penny tray of sweets for the kids when they came out of school
and next to her shop was my long life friend even today is dave allen; whom lived direct facing the pub which was called the swan but change name inthe early to mid fiftys i recal them taking it apart and replacing it as i have said you look towards your left of the picture yu see another looking shop
just before you get to the pub that woden loking frontage was the alibones shop come drapers and hard wares shop
she sold mops buckets and brooms and curtains ; mrs alibones family had three or four shops along on spring hill ran by her family
one was directly at the bottom of the spring hill passage across the rd facing the horse and coaches pub afew doors from old waty green ; and along the rd towards the shop was on the corner of george street west heading towards spring hill libary they had two more bigger shops
getting back to the question of pimps family ys there was a big court of houses and up that court there was a bookie ran by a neibour
long before old watty openend up his beting shop in the days under cover of illegal gambling ;
i used to run down the hill to ths entry and go up into the court and hand the rolled up paper with the old mans bet ; is code name on the paper
was blackie ; even when we lived in stn previously i used to takeup and entry in park rd by coxxs entry ;facing ansells entrance ;
i wouldjust like to mentiomn that mrs grithin and family was around in those days an elderly lady what part of the sibblin came i do not know but i have said mr and mrs memory lived up by mrs grithin and they always said hello to mrs grithin when they was kids at the opher end of stour street by the other courts of stour street and cope street was a groceryshop they had a daugter called joyce cannot recall the surname at the moment but he kept ared jaguar car ;
next to the moselys famyily and chiefe fire offier of brum he was there grand father ; best wishes astonian;;
 
Looking at the 19th century censuses it surprises me how much families moved around these properties, presumably because of short term lets. For instance comparing 1901 and 1911 virtually the whole of Stour Street has new tenants, very few properties have the same families in them as 10 years previous. I'd always imagined people would move less in the past, but not in the city estates!
Astonian, thank you for filling in so much detail on the area! I guess you're refering to a period around the mid-20th century?

My immediate family moved to Kingstanding in the late 1930's, but several Griffin family members remained in Stour Street and other parts of Ladywood. Does anyone know of an online source for Electoral Rolls for the area? Birmingham library has some volumes, but I'm not able to get over to Birmingham often.
John
 
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