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Hortons in the leather/currier business

H

henry123

proper brummie kid
I am looking into the family of William Horton born C1815 he married a Charlotte Coppage or similar and had 3 children Eliza, Esther and William. One of the problems I have is that Esther married a George Edwards who seems to be a ghost, he appears by name but never with Esther on a census. I believe he had a grocer/provision merchant business at 52 Bishop street South. If anyone has any information on him or are related to the Hortons in the leather/currier trade I would be grateful.
 
hi henry and welcome...i am sure some of members who love a mystery will be along soon to try and help you

lyn
 
Earlier in 1800 there was a William Horton at 77 Bull Street, cheap boot and shoe Warehouse.
 
Thanks Pedrocut Master Brummie that is the son of William C1815 his father was also called William C1781 and his wife was called Mary surname unknown and I know nothing about them. Thanks again
 
Does he list his occupation as grocer on his marriage and the baptisms of his children (at least 4)? I see he lists his father as George on his marriage, does he list an address?

And I see Esther lists herself as married in 1881 and widowed 1891 which may imply George died between those dates, though that's not always reliable.
 
As far as I am aware he only had 3 children on his marriage cert his occupation is a grocer in 1862, a provision dealer in 1864 birth cert, in 1866 a currier on birth cert and in 1869 provision dealer on birth cert. I am thinking that he had a grocer/provision premises at a different location from Esther.
 
I have a Charlotte Louisa 1868 - 1868 as well as George Oliver 1864-1864, Walter Oliver 1866 & George 1869.

It is possible that George is with a cousin in 1901 and 1911. Not completely certain but he is listed as a Tailor in 1891 and Tailor's Cutter in 1901 and 1911. The cousin is a Harriet Wakefield (nee Jones) born Breconshire but can't see the connection atm apart from Jones and Edwards being mainly Welsh names.

Coincidently, Harriet's husband is absent from all her censuses as well.
 
I thanks for this I did not know about Charlotte Louisa George that is in the 1901 and 1911 with the Wakefield's is George born 1869. George that married Esther was born in 1839.
 
MWS said:
Does he list his occupation as grocer on his marriage and the baptisms of his children (at least 4)? I see he lists his father as George on his marriage, does he list an address?
Click to expand...
Address is simply Birmingham.
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George is listed as a grocer on 1861 census when he is living with his parents. Father is down as publican and it is the Bell Inn Ravenhurst Street.

Is this Esther??
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And that seems to be good enough, father George Edwards publican.

1861 census Ravenshurst St, Aston - George Edwards b1803 publican, with wife and children who include a George Edwards b1840 grocer.
 
Is this George in 1871? Living with his brother Walter and listed as a provision dealer.
Address looks like back of 7 Kent Street.
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She lists herself as a widow in 1891, so that corroborates a little. Charles' first wife died in 1890.

Could it be her Will was written when George was still alive and not changed, hence the 2 names? Just guessing.
 
MWS said:
She lists herself as a widow in 1891, so that corroborates a little. Charles' first wife died in 1890.

Could it be her Will was written when George was still alive and not changed, hence the 2 names? Just guessing.
Click to expand...
That was my guess.as well. So will written as Edwards and not changed.
WIll proved under name "Edwards".
 
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Thanks for all your help I have the death cert for Esther 14/1/1894 and her death occurred at 63 St Pauls Road Balsall Heath and Charles Rothero present at death. So the death in the 3rd Q with the names Esther Edwards, Elizabeth Amelia Jackson and Charles Rothero ???. I got the baptismal records for Charlotte Louisa Edwards dated 24/2/1868 and father George's occupation as provision dealer.
 
Sorry I misread the 1891 marriage as a death. On her marriage cert to Charles Rothero she gives her address as Summer Lane and a widow.
 
If George was a grocer/provision dealer then I think he worked for other people. I didn't find him listed on Kelly's directory. Nor did I find 52 Bishop Street South - listing seemed to stop at 50.
 
Taking everything at face value would suggest he died sometime between 1871 and 1887. However, there doesn't appear to be a matching death registration for him in Bham, Aston, Kings Norton or West Brom. So...

his death was recorded locally but there is some error with the details

his death was recorded further afield

he didn't die between those dates and he abandoned his wife

The last sign of his brother, Walter, is also 1871 and no likely local death reg. afterwards for him either.
 
I have some Hortons in my tree:
William Horton 1792-1849, his wife Jane Harrison 1790-1867, daughter Sarah Ann Horton1816-1898 and son Joseph William Horton 1829- ?
Sarah Ann married to David Terry 1816-1881, their daughter Sarah Terry 1839-? married to Thomas Gibson 1835-? my great granddad.
 
Hi Eric thanks for that I will keep you tree in mind as you never know where they will join up. The "Currier/leather " Hortons Had 3 premises on the go
6 Moat Row from 1864 - 1886, 15 MacDonald Street 1857 - 1888, 11.12 High Street, Deritend 1867 - 1890.
The MacDonald street From 1867 - 1870 changed from Hortons to my elusive George Edwards and went back to the Horton name until 1884 when it changed to Esther Edwards. In 1890 the premises were taken over by a John Lloyd also a currier, he remained there until1893 when it reverted back to Esther Edwards even though she had remarried and her surname was Rothero. It then went back to John Lloyd after Esther's death in January 1894. These are the bones can anyone put some flesh on them. Thanks.
I agree with you MWS he can't be fixed to an address through his latter years so I will have to keep on searching.
 
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