• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

Herbots Antwerp Belgium

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ann B
  • Start date Start date
A

Ann B

Guest
I don't know if anyone can give me some tips on tracing ancestors from Belgium. I have done a lot on my Birmingham ancestors but have a whole quarter of my family tree missing. My grandfather Jaques Herbots (b.1871) was a a Belgian refugee who came to Birmingham in 1915 from 10 Rue de Bollandus Antwerp. He was sent to work at the Austin as an engineer. I have looked on Belgium sites, but as they all seem to be in Dutch, they are completely double dutch to me! Any pointers would be most appreciated. Ann
 
I used to live in Belgium and still have an English acquaintance who lives in Antwerp and speaks Flemish (Dutch) not spoken to him for about 20 years but I could try him for you.

George
 
George
If you would, that would be most appreciated. I would welcome any information on Jaques Herbots. At the moment I seem to be stuck with the language barrier. Ann
 
Ann,

In Antwerp and Flanders we all speak Flemish not Dutch. If you need any help with translations I speak, read & write perfect Flemish (& Dutch). BTW, Flemish and Dutch are both written the same way, it's called Netherlands, but the pronunciation is different. I have some friends and family in Antwerp but not many people here are interested in genealogy, so it may be difficult to find a link. Where have you been looking?

At a guess I would say that your grandfather's name was most likely Jacques Herrebout or Herrebouts and has been wrongly re-written in England as Jaques Herbots.

Open this link and click on the 'H' and you will see an example of how many different spellings there are for this name! https://home.scarlet.be/~jj488225/joye/index.htm
 
Last edited:
Cadeau, Thank you for your reply. I have looked on many Belgium/Flemish sites. I have found in address book a Pierre Jaques Herbots in Antwerp in the early 1800's. I have gone from Belgium Roots Web to many others but never found a match. I read an article for Belgium that says records are in Dutch French and Latin, but it also added that a lot of records were destroyed during the 2 world wars. I'll try the surnames you have suggested, but on my mother's birth certificate he has signed J. Herbots. At least I have a photograph of his house, which is still standing but is now 10 Bollandustraat. I have his name on Ancestry, so always hope that there may be a match at sometime. Best wishes Ann
 
Cadeau I may have sent an instant message but may have got it wrong. So thank you for the link. I have found on an american site the address for the state archives for Antwerp. Should I write to them in english about my grandfather or would it be better if I got you to translate the letter after I have drafted it? Ann
 
Yes got that. Cheers. I'll write to them and give you a shout if I need any help. Best wishes Ann
 
Cadeau,
I e-mailed State Archives for Antwerp (in English, as you suggested) asking for help tracing my grandfather Jaques Herbots. They replied 'we have found the birth certificate for your grandfather'. I was amazed. Today his birth certificate arrived (not good quality). But I can't read it. Can you translate any of it? I understand Brasshouse Birmingham does translations, so I may have to take it there. But would you have a look at it? Ann
 
Ann,

I'm looking into it now. It's not very clear, but I think I can make it out. might take a while.

Graham.
 
Thank you Graham,
No its not very clear at all, with all those lines. But I have waited and hoped for so long to find anything on my grandfather. So I can wait as long as it takes. Ann
 
Ann, it is all in old Flemish of which I'm quite good but it may take a few days, those lines don't help. It is a birth certificate of Jacobus Herbots born the 1st May 1871.

ps, I'm off to bed now, it's almost 1 am here.

Graham.
 
Last edited:
Ann,

Just to save you waiting too long I'll give you what I think are the main details.

This is a page from the registry office in Antwerp. In Belgium you have to go to the registry office yourself, with two witnesses, to declare a birth or death. This entry was made on the 1st May 1871 at 12 noon.

In the first column; Deed N° 1638 added to the marriage certificate of the parents. (in Belgium the marriage certificate is a book wherein there is a page reserved for entering any children’s births They were married in 1871, deed N° 172, so this looks like an emergency job with Jacobus already on the way!:blush:

In the 2nd column; Birth registry of Jacobus Herbots, 1st May 1871.
Father's name; Petrus Herbots, copper founder (caster) from Antwerp. (Copper founder could also mean brass founder as in Flemish brass is called 'yellow copper').

Mothers name; Anna Theresia Pera from Antwerp. (It is written Pera but could have been Pêra from a Spanish family name, as Antwerp has very strong Spanish roots having been occupied by the Spanish at one time, from 1585 ad. My wife's family in Antwerp also have Spanish sir names).

I think that the rest is the entry of the names of the witnesses and the registrar, but if I find time I'll work on it again. In the meantime I hope that this is of some help.

Graham.
 
Graham,
'Hope this of some help' It's more than that. Its fantastic! I didn't think you would be able to make much out at all (if any). Coincidence that his father was a brasscaster. Jaques (Jacobus) was my mother's father and her mother, Eliza Church was the grandaughter of brassfounders who had a small factory in Barford Street South.
If I could, I would send you a large tub of Burden's ice cream (read the thread). It seems that whenever I speak to my brother, we both go off into raptures about that ice cream...the smell..the taste. We both think it's the best in the world too. After we moved to Sheldon, we would often cycle down to Burden's for a tub.
Thank you so much. I now finally have something to add to my tree for my Belgian roots. All the best Ann
 
Ann,

You are very welcome and I can taste that tub of Burden's right now, I hope that the postman has got his cool box with him.:D

About those witnesses; they might not be very important as here in Belgium one rarely takes a witness along to the registry office, there are always "professional" witnesses hanging around outside the registry office. They are people that are out of work, or tramps, that make a living out of the tips they get from people going into the registry office.

Good luck with your family and it's Flemish roots.

Graham.
 
Thank you Jim but you know that, if possible, it will always be a pleasure to help any of the wonderful people here on BHF. They have helped me so much and given me so much friendship.

Ann,

Just to briefly fill in, for your family history, why Jacobus became Jacques. At that time the Flemish language was not very highly ranked, French was much more 'posh' and the French speaking Belgians tried to conquer the whole country with their language. So good old Flemish names like Jacobus that were in daily use changed to the French equivalent, Jacques. Pure snobbery! But as you can see from the entry in the registry his name is Jacobus.
 
Firstly I second Postie's comment!

Graham,
It was so good to pass on the translation to my sister in law tonight, and I can't wait to tell my sister when she returns from holiday. Besides the translation, it helps to understand the background. The fact that a marriage entry has a page reserved for births. And I wouldn't have guessed that the change from Jacobus to Jaques was a 'snobbery' thing. I realised that it was more 'French' back then. Jaques' name and his address, 10 Rue de Bollandus, now Bollandustraat. I am going to return Jaques to his Flemish roots, and change his name on Ancestry to Jacobus!There's no longer such a gap in the middle of my tree, since adding his parents names. A good day!
Ann
 
Ann,

Here is an example of a Flemish marriage licence. This is from the parents of one of my friends, I'm archiving his history. Just to give you an idea, in the second photo you can see the page reserved for entering the children and for noting their inoculations.
 
Ann B said:
I wouldn't have guessed that the change from Jacobus to Jaques was a 'snobbery' thing. I realised that it was more 'French' back then. Jaques' name and his address, 10 Rue de Bollandus, now Bollandustraat. I am going to return Jaques to his Flemish roots, and change his name on Ancestry to Jacobus!
Ann
Click to expand...

Ann,

I hope that you don't think I'm trying to say that your ancestor was a snob? If say the brass foundry was his own business it would have been a necessary evil in those days to call himself Jacques, to give his business more standing. That even the name of the street was in French, that would be unheard of today in Flanders. The street is most likely named after Joannes Bollandus, not a French name, and is still there in Antwerp.
 
Graham,
I didn't think you were calling my ancestor 'a snob', although for all I know he might have been! I understood your meaning. Someone I used to know, his family name was really Fleishman but it had been changed for reasons after the war to Fleeshman. And our Royal family changed their name.
I've printed off your replies and saved the 'marriage book'. Now knowing that Jacques was Jacobus and his father was Petrus, its interesting that there is on Ancestry a Petrus Jacobus Herrebout. (your alternate spelling)
I took a better look at your link and read all about your cycling achievements. You should be on the Birmingham Walk of fame! I smiled to see that you were from Leamington Rd. I lived, for just the first few weeks of my life, a couple of streets up the Stoney Lane from you, in Newton Rd. But, as my nan was there for a lot longer, its almost like we grew up round there. Saturday mornings with Flash Gordon at the picture house (Ladypool Rd. I think) and roller skating at Walford Rd. How nice but how strange that 'a lad from down the road' should be the one to do an old Flemish translation for me.
Ann
 
Ann,

It gives me such a warm feeling reading your posts of gratitude and I really appreciate them but I'm only too glad to help you. Who else could in 'old' Flemish?:) I have shown that page to some Belgians and even they can make very little of it!

Thanks for looking at my cycling blog and your feedback is welcome. I'll have to update it soon, haven't had time with my French exams.

I think we all went on Saturday's to the Carlton cinema, watching Flash Gordon, the one on Ladypool Road was the 'flea pit' (see photos, I think that I pinched these from Postie). The Embassy roller rink is where I built most of my leg muscles that helped me to become a racing cyclist!
 
Graham,
Sorry for the delay replying. As soon as I read the Carlton, I remembered that was the one I went to with my brother. Thanks for the 'stolen' pics.
I half joked that you 'should be on the Broad Street Walk of Stars', although I must say, with your knowledge of old Flemish, personally speaking its your linguistic skills that most impress me at the moment! Anyway, I've nominated you for 'The Walk of Stars'. I'm sure others have, but the more the merrier.
Returing to Jacques Herbots. His birth certificate was sent to me by the State Archives. They also informed me that they only hold archives pre 1906 and to apply to the City of Antwerp Archives for Jacques' death certificate. I don't know if they will be able to find it, as at least with his birth I had a year. But, if they do, I may need your translation skills again! I want to visit Anwerp to see his house. But I'm going to see if I can find out a little more about Jacques first.
p.s. I saw the B.S.A. thread. You worked there too. My grandfather, my dad and most of his brothers worked there. They used to play snooker every Sunday at the B.S.A. Social Club, while me and my brother played 'by the canal'. Was dad trying to tell us something? Ann
 
Ann,

Thank you for the nomination, now there are two of you:D.

My linguistic skills are like my cycling skills, and all other skills, I was born with them. That doesn't mean to say that it's not jolly hard work refining and using them, it is real hard labour! My greatest joy is when a Belgian tells me that I have no trace of an English accent. All off thread so I'll shut up now.

I wish you every luck in tracing your Family roots and if you need my help just give a shout. You may have to wait for an answer as I'm not always around computers in the summer. I'm sure you will love Antwerp, the old city, and its people.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top