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Roger1234
Guest
Can anyone help me trace my Grandmother Sarah Jane Harris (Dressmaker) who gave Birth to my late father Bertram William Duncalfe Harris at 2bk 58 Chain walk Aston in 1912.
Roger
Roger
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bren
master brummie
Hi Roger and welcome
The first question is, do you have your fathers birth certificate, if you do could you give us his fathers name and then we can trace the marriage. I have found a birth for your father --
Bertram W D Harris mmn Harris 4th qtr 1912 Aston 6d 820
mmn = mothers maiden name
Having seen that, do you know if she had any brothers or sisters and their names, if so we just might be able to pick them up in the 1901 census possibly with her parents.
bren
The first question is, do you have your fathers birth certificate, if you do could you give us his fathers name and then we can trace the marriage. I have found a birth for your father --
Bertram W D Harris mmn Harris 4th qtr 1912 Aston 6d 820
mmn = mothers maiden name
Having seen that, do you know if she had any brothers or sisters and their names, if so we just might be able to pick them up in the 1901 census possibly with her parents.
bren
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Roger1234
Guest
Sarah jane Harris
Hi Bren
This is where my problems start?. I have a copy of the Birth certificate, which I obtained from Birmingham Register Office last year. Unfortunately the only information on the Cert is, Mother Sarah jane Harris, Occupation Dressmaker, fathers name unknown?. Which to me denotes out of wedlock. However because of the unusual Surname (Duncalfe Harris) I was advised by the Registrar to search the Duncalfe family for more info on my Grandmother. Have tried this but a William Bertram Duncalfe from Pattingham emigrated to Canada 1890 ish. incidentaly my Father was adopted?, given away 1912-14. Q- Did She come from Aston or was she sent there to have her Child ?.
Thanks Roger
Hi Bren
This is where my problems start?. I have a copy of the Birth certificate, which I obtained from Birmingham Register Office last year. Unfortunately the only information on the Cert is, Mother Sarah jane Harris, Occupation Dressmaker, fathers name unknown?. Which to me denotes out of wedlock. However because of the unusual Surname (Duncalfe Harris) I was advised by the Registrar to search the Duncalfe family for more info on my Grandmother. Have tried this but a William Bertram Duncalfe from Pattingham emigrated to Canada 1890 ish. incidentaly my Father was adopted?, given away 1912-14. Q- Did She come from Aston or was she sent there to have her Child ?.
Thanks Roger
bren
master brummie
Hi Roger
Yes, as i was replying to you i was searching at the same time and when i saw mmn Harris i thought it is either she married another Harris or this is a child born out of wedlock and there is no fathers name given. I also thought your fathers name may contain a clue and had a quick look but decided to see if/what reply you would give, trouble is any info we found on that side of it could only ever be speculation, we need to try and find some hard evidence. I note you say your father was adopted, was this in Birmingham, you have to think there is a good chance that there is an adoption file regards this and there just might be information contained in it that will tell you more about his mother, not so sure about the father.
I would suggest you contact social services and make some enquiries with them, i don't know the rules and reg's but i would think that if there is a file, your father is deceased, and you can prove who you are you might get access to it, got to be worth a go.
bren
Yes, as i was replying to you i was searching at the same time and when i saw mmn Harris i thought it is either she married another Harris or this is a child born out of wedlock and there is no fathers name given. I also thought your fathers name may contain a clue and had a quick look but decided to see if/what reply you would give, trouble is any info we found on that side of it could only ever be speculation, we need to try and find some hard evidence. I note you say your father was adopted, was this in Birmingham, you have to think there is a good chance that there is an adoption file regards this and there just might be information contained in it that will tell you more about his mother, not so sure about the father.
I would suggest you contact social services and make some enquiries with them, i don't know the rules and reg's but i would think that if there is a file, your father is deceased, and you can prove who you are you might get access to it, got to be worth a go.
bren
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Roger1234
Guest
Sarah Jane
Hi Bren
No go with the adoption part, not legal until 1927, however my Dad was brought up by a Hannah Probert or Morris she was from Cradeley Heath not sure of her Maiden name. I don't know is Sarah Jane was related to Hannah? surely she would't just give him to anyone?. Also years ago someone gave me info that a Sarah Jane Harris Died and was Buried in Shifnal in 1923 aged 45 (can't find any record of that) If so she could be the Sarah Jane D.O.B. 1878 who lived with her Mom Sarah Ann at 71 Montgomery St Aston (Dressmaker). If I'm wrong I appologise to any members of that family who might read this. Changing the subject. This site is brilliant, personal thanks to yourself for speedy replies.
Thanks Roger
Hi Bren
No go with the adoption part, not legal until 1927, however my Dad was brought up by a Hannah Probert or Morris she was from Cradeley Heath not sure of her Maiden name. I don't know is Sarah Jane was related to Hannah? surely she would't just give him to anyone?. Also years ago someone gave me info that a Sarah Jane Harris Died and was Buried in Shifnal in 1923 aged 45 (can't find any record of that) If so she could be the Sarah Jane D.O.B. 1878 who lived with her Mom Sarah Ann at 71 Montgomery St Aston (Dressmaker). If I'm wrong I appologise to any members of that family who might read this. Changing the subject. This site is brilliant, personal thanks to yourself for speedy replies.
Thanks Roger
Roger,please do not take offence at my posting but your remark 'surely she wouldn't just give him to anyone'.
The awful truth is that life was hard at that time and an unwanted baby
would have been given away easily.
Also the occupation 'Dressmaker' was used to cover another not so respectable occupation,in fact members of this forum can tell you that there were very many 'Dressmakers' in Birmingham at that time.
The awful truth is that life was hard at that time and an unwanted baby
would have been given away easily.
Also the occupation 'Dressmaker' was used to cover another not so respectable occupation,in fact members of this forum can tell you that there were very many 'Dressmakers' in Birmingham at that time.
R
Roger1234
Guest
Sarah Jane
Hi Alberta
No offence taken, I joined this site for help and advice and am gratefull for both. I do understand about hard times then and also now. I think i'm just hoping that Sarah Jane would have given my Dad to someone she knew. I did not realize that the term Dressmaker was used by the proffesion as you stated, never come across that before. However she is still my Grandmother and I would dearly love to find out all I can.
Thaks Roger
Hi Alberta
No offence taken, I joined this site for help and advice and am gratefull for both. I do understand about hard times then and also now. I think i'm just hoping that Sarah Jane would have given my Dad to someone she knew. I did not realize that the term Dressmaker was used by the proffesion as you stated, never come across that before. However she is still my Grandmother and I would dearly love to find out all I can.
Thaks Roger
bren
master brummie
Hi Roger
I think any of us on here would say, despite the circumstances, we JUST WANT TO KNOW.
At the moment there is no obvious link to anyone or place, makes you think "What would i give to have a peek at the 1911 census". You have obviously looked at a lot of options regards this, the only other thing i can think of at the moment is the 1912/13 electoral roll for Brum but of course there is the question you posed, was she just sent here to have the child, no permanent residency, and of course we don't know her age. If you fancy having a look there is a site that has come to our attention recently and maybe one of the names you mention fulfil the criteria to be on the roll.
https://www.midlandshistoricaldata.org/index.html
bren
I think any of us on here would say, despite the circumstances, we JUST WANT TO KNOW.
At the moment there is no obvious link to anyone or place, makes you think "What would i give to have a peek at the 1911 census". You have obviously looked at a lot of options regards this, the only other thing i can think of at the moment is the 1912/13 electoral roll for Brum but of course there is the question you posed, was she just sent here to have the child, no permanent residency, and of course we don't know her age. If you fancy having a look there is a site that has come to our attention recently and maybe one of the names you mention fulfil the criteria to be on the roll.
https://www.midlandshistoricaldata.org/index.html
bren
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Roger1234
Guest
Sarah Jane
Thanks Bren will try that now. Oh to look at the 1911 census.
Roger
Thanks Bren will try that now. Oh to look at the 1911 census.
Roger