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Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
Henry Jones v Samuel Colt?
1835...Year of claimed invention (by Henry JONES) of the ‘self-acting revolving pistol, in Birmingham’. (The Ironmonger, 24/12/1910, p566)
(Research Press, Firearms, Long Range Target Shooting & Associated History)
1835...Year of claimed invention (by Henry JONES) of the ‘self-acting revolving pistol, in Birmingham’. (The Ironmonger, 24/12/1910, p566)
(Research Press, Firearms, Long Range Target Shooting & Associated History)
mw0njm.
A Brummie Dude
i would love to see his invention.
mw0njm.
A Brummie Dude
there is a club in the quarry here that fire them muzzle loaders.and black powder weapons....i tryd them.na ill stick to my blunderbuss
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
One of the nice things about the BHF is that it can unearth information that is not mentioned by previous persons who have looked very closely into certain subjects. Here we have a clip from 1914 that mentions a Henry Jones, the “King of Birmingham gun making” and yet he does't seem to get any mention in the “gun trade" information which is easily available. In the clip Henry Jones is said to have invented the self-acting revolving pistol in 1835.
However there is the another clip from 1835 that reports a Charles Jones of Whittall Street demonstrated the pistol to the Turkish Ambassador. There are references from at least 1833 of a Chas Jones, gun maker and medalist at 16 Whittall St and St. Mary's Square, and in 1862 at Alma Street. There is also a mention of a Henry Jones in 1849 at Park Road, 1855 at 6 Court Lench St, 1873 at 41 Islington Row, and 1890 at 10 New buildings Price St.
Of course Charles and Henry could be brothers, or father and son, or even the same person.
In the first clip it also says that in 1858 Henry perfectected a double grip action breech loader. There is a mention of a “Jones screw grip action, a patent 2040 of 1859” on the vintage Gun site below
The Jones screw grip shotgun
The Henry Jones screw grip is seriously under-valued.
www.vintageguns.co.uk
“The screw grip was first patented in Britain by Henry Jones in 1859 - an "underlever screw grip for breech loading actions" - typically referred to in the trade as "Jones underlever" or "lever over guard" as Lagopus correctly stated. The Jones is a screw grip action. It's primary (and only) locking system is a screw grip.”
So we have the basis for anyone who has an interest in vintage guns to delve further.
mw0njm.
A Brummie Dude
One of the nice things about the BHF is that it can unearth information that is not mentioned by previous persons who have looked very closely into certain subjects. Here we have a clip from 1914 that mentions a Henry Jones, the “King of Birmingham gun making” and yet he does't seem to get any mention in the “gun trade" information which is easily available. In the clip Henry Jones is said to have invented the self-acting revolving pistol in 1835.
However there is the another clip from 1835 that reports a Charles Jones of Whittall Street demonstrated the pistol to the Turkish Ambassador. There are references from at least 1833 of a Chas Jones, gun maker and medalist at 16 Whittall St and St. Mary's Square, and in 1862 at Alma Street. There is also a mention of a Henry Jones in 1849 at Park Road, 1855 at 6 Court Lench St, 1873 at 41 Islington Row, and 1890 at 10 New buildings Price St.
Of course Charles and Henry could be brothers, or father and son, or even the same person.
In the first clip it also says that in 1858 Henry perfectected a double grip action breech loader. There is a mention of a “Jones screw grip action, a patent 2040 of 1859” on the vintage Gun site below
Looking on further vintage gun sites it reveals....The Jones screw grip shotgun
The Henry Jones screw grip is seriously under-valued.
“The screw grip was first patented in Britain by Henry Jones in 1859 - an "underlever screw grip for breech loading actions" - typically referred to in the trade as "Jones underlever" or "lever over guard" as Lagopus correctly stated. The Jones is a screw grip action. It's primary (and only) locking system is a screw grip.”
So we have the basis for anyone who has an interest in vintage guns to delve further.
[/QUOTE.......... Thanks P. very interesting stuff........
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Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
The link in the above post no longer works, but came across this one that gives a short history of early gun making in Birmingham...
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
From the site in the above post...
“By the middle of the seventeenth century Birmingham was becoming established as a gun-manufacturing centre and in 1689 a Government contract was undertaken to produce military small arms. Later in 1693 a larger contract was awarded whereby Birmingham gunsmiths agreed to deliver 200 weapons per month for a year.”
The Birmingham Gazette in September 1865 gives the letter sent to Roger Newdigate in 1689. It goes on to describe and name the five Manufacturers given the contract. William Bourne, Thomas Moore, Jno West, Richard Weston and Jacob Austin.
[The five invoked the corporate identity as “The Company of Gunmakers in Birmingham.” [Empire of Guns, Priya Satia (2018) ]
“By the middle of the seventeenth century Birmingham was becoming established as a gun-manufacturing centre and in 1689 a Government contract was undertaken to produce military small arms. Later in 1693 a larger contract was awarded whereby Birmingham gunsmiths agreed to deliver 200 weapons per month for a year.”
The Birmingham Gazette in September 1865 gives the letter sent to Roger Newdigate in 1689. It goes on to describe and name the five Manufacturers given the contract. William Bourne, Thomas Moore, Jno West, Richard Weston and Jacob Austin.
[The five invoked the corporate identity as “The Company of Gunmakers in Birmingham.” [Empire of Guns, Priya Satia (2018) ]
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Steve Harpur
Brummie babby
Hello, We must have passed each other many a time, as I was doing exactly the same thing in the very same place from 1960-63. I worked at William Ford Ltd./James Carr & Son, in St. Mary's Row. Carr's was owned by Mrs. Carr, and managed by Alan Thornton, and I was the general dogsbody. One of my jobs was converting old .303 rifles to 4.10 shotguns, which we then sold for £10. Those old .303's are selling for £600 these days (de-activated).
Phil B
Made in Brum
To give contexts of where some people lived who worked in the Gun Quarter my 4 x Great Grandfather, James Trueman, who was a “Gun Breech Maker” in 1851 was living at 23 New John Street, Aston and later when living at 277 New Town Row, Aston.
His son, my 3 x Great Grandfather, Shadrach Trueman, was a “Gun Barrel Forger”. My 2 x Great Grandparents , the daughter of Shadrach, Jane Trueman who married George Matthews a “Gun Finisher” lived at 11 New Town Row, Aston in 1861.
Phil
His son, my 3 x Great Grandfather, Shadrach Trueman, was a “Gun Barrel Forger”. My 2 x Great Grandparents , the daughter of Shadrach, Jane Trueman who married George Matthews a “Gun Finisher” lived at 11 New Town Row, Aston in 1861.
Phil
Banjo
master brummie
Hi Steve, yes, we may well have encountered each other during that time. More so if you went to the cafe on the corner of Price St & Loveday St. I was always in there playing the jukebox. I reckon I played "Tell Laura I Love Her" so many times I could have bought the record.
Steve Harpur
Brummie babby
Hello Banjo, yes I remember the cafe, but I only went in occasionally to buy a cake. Remember that record, still a 60's bloke at heart, still got loads of 60's original records. Cheers.
Jonathan1313
Brummie babby
Charles William Page is he your grandfather?
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Richard Dye
master brummie
Banjo, funny thing about those jukebox’s, how many of us have bought records over and over!
mw0njm.
A Brummie Dude
Many being sold to the South making a lot of money for some Birmingham gunmakers. BSA leading the way with its larger scale production in the 1860s, Viv.
Richard Dye
master brummie
Yes, Janice! Many guns were shipped from Birmingham for the US civil war on both sides, North & South. Having lived in the North and South I have seen the guns at a number of historic sites in both places.
Richard Dye
master brummie
Correct Mike. Most US gun factories were in Connecticut and a few other New England states which is why the south bought guns from England, Germany and France as well as a few other places.
David Williams ("The Birmingham gun Trade") quotes 733,403 guns being sent to America over 4 years from Birmingham, with many marked with American manufacturers names during manufacture (presumably at the request of the Americans). Apparently the profits generated meant that there were nightly carousals at the Gunmakers Arms
s
paul stacey
master brummie
I was told that the "Sawn Off Shotguns", used by the "Overland Stage Company", were all ordered from "Greeners", of Birmingham. ??
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
”Between 1855 and 1861, six million arms were tested and proofed here - many of them destined for the USA….WW Greener…”
BBC - Birmingham - History - Birmingham's historic gun trade
Some Brummies made a lot of money during the American Civil War - selling guns to the south. David Williams looks back at Birmingham's long association with gun manufacturing.
www.bbc.co.uk
British guns definitely ended up in New Orleans. I took this photo in a shop in the French Quarter a couple of years ago. I’ve never seen so many vintage weapons. Personally they give me the creeps. But I did stop to wonder if they originally came from Birmingham (UK). These pre-date the Civil War. Viv.
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