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Gun Trade Factories

  • Thread starter Thread starter Saxonw.
  • Start date Start date
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Saxonw.

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I am intersted in finding out more about this very important trade as far as Birmingham is concerned. My family were steeped in the gun trade and lived in Slaney Street which I understand was one of the main streets in Birmingham. for that particular trade. Can anyone tell me the likely firms my family worked for? I had heard that iWebley were based around there, but have not yet substantiated this.
 
that would have A J PARKER,the old dear kept it going for years ,its still going now world famous for old bits like SMLEsthe no5 lee enfields ,peep sights magazines oil bottles ,pull thrus,and it smells GUNNY AND OILY WHEN YOU WALK IN
 
the famous firm of WILLIAM FORD,moved from st marys row when the ydemolished the gun quarter in 65,they went to POTTERS HILL ASTON not for long tho they went then to 252 mosely rd,but was then bought by GAILONS(sir malcom guthrie),no longer making guns,but recently i was looking at a de activated william ford 12 g side by side ejector ,the man had it de activated (fit for nowt but hanging on the wall) it was worth about 1800 quid before he had knackered,it was legitimatly held on a shotgun certificate ,but i cant see the sense in almost destroying a piece of famous gun making history just to stick it back in a cupboard,even if you wall mounted it at home,there is still thechance of it getting nicked and used in a threating situation as you wouldnt know it didnt work if it was stuck under your nose
 
HELLO SAXONW
My ancestors lived at house back of 27 slaney street from 1841-1861
there names were joyce the sons were gunmakers
astwood:D
 
hi guys;
i hope you will excuse me on this being in this slot
i surpose this is a dual purpose of a question i am asking thats why i have said am i in the right slot for this; ?.
firstly was there a pistol weapon or any other weapon of any discription called an illsely pistol or gun ; maker in the birmingham area around the 1800-60;s
into the very early 1900;s and ;the name george illselly is the name man of being a gun maker; is sons was also involved in gun finisher and barrellers
and they resided at ward street aston in te 1800s early 1900s, so i was wondering whether or not was there any kind of work shops in that street at that time also it say there was court house ;in the street as well
as i am tracing jack ellselly and other members of the family whom married into the jelfs i know jack married ellen that i know for certain but it is george was the main pistol or gum maker and they tell me they named this pistol after him and it became the illsley pistols ; i would early like to venture into get conirmation o this illsely weapons or the given nae the illesley pistols
one again many hanks for your valuable time in reading my request on this topic
best wishes ASTONIAN ;;
 
hi astonian

No Ilsley gun makers 1833 or before, but in 1829-30 there was :
llsley Joseph, brass fire furniture and bracket maker, 100, Lancaster-st.
1839 Ilsley William, gun barrel finisher, 52, Matchett street
No gunmaker Ilsleys in 1845
1849 Ilsley Thomas, gun finisher, 83, Cliveland st
1855 Ilsley Thos., gun finisher, 42½ Staniforth at; Aston
1855 Ilsley Joseph, gun finisher, 17 Court, Price street
1858 Ilsley Angerian gunmaker, 245, Farm st
1855-58 Ilsley Wm., gunmaker, 244, Farm st
1858 Ilseley Wm., gun stocker, ct 9, Lancaster at;h, 14, York st
1862 Ilseley John gunmaker 331 New John St West
1867 Ilseley Thomas, gun barrel filer , 2 court. Legge St, Aston road
No Ilseleys mentioned in gun trade 1868 or 1872
1873 Ilsley Anierian, gun maker, and pigeon dealer, 124 Hospital St
1873 Ilsley George, gun maker’s manager, Guildford street
1876 Ilsley George, gun finisher, 56 (back of) New Summer st
No mention of George 1878-9
1880-90 Ilsely George gunmaker court 1 Ward St
1876-80 Ilsley James, gun barrel filer, 7 New buildings, Price street
No Ilsley gunmakers seem to be listed 1892 or after. In 1883 no 7 New buildings, where James had been was run (with no 11 new buildings) by William Bayliss. Gun barrel filer

Hope this is helpful
Mike
 
HI MIKE
Many thanks for doing a trace for me on the illselys family around the periods
it proved to be very intresting to me and the names you have discovered are all related to the names i have
the george of number i court ward st is that just mean is occupation all was he making these pistols
or guns and i notice one said he was a manager does that mean was he employed as a works manager
in a gun factory ;
this eldery lady whom my daughter is involved with told her that it was her mother whom was the jelf ;
and i have reason to beleive she was the wife or daughter of samuel jelf from claines worcester
whom was the wealthy land owner and she told her that illsely went into bussiness with the jelfs
whom was and i know did sell the guns in birmingham in the early years
afew years ago when i started to go into the central libary to start my family history
i really did not know my way around on the systems , and as i was in there every day scouring the ledgers i met this little old chap and apparently he his or still does researching for people for a fee
and he said it was an expensive to do but any waycutting the story short i mentoned the jelf
and he said oh yes i remember the jelf he worked along side my father he said he was a gun maker
as i have said this lady as told her that this chap isley was her father and is name was george
and said yes they named a pistol after him and thats how it became isley pistols ,i personaly do not know
bhut what you have furnished to me are all the family names hat have been sent to me
so that is terrif ; my daughter said last night this lady friend whom apparently is well known
and she told her she would very much like to meet me ; swo there may be a chance i could find out more
but i seen the no; i ward st court 5 and seeing your info; i thought that might be it
well mike many thanks for your valuable time so if possible could you just confirm that question on george is a manger in a company or a actual maker himself best wishes as always Astonian ;
 
That is what i took it to be. He could be the manager of Anierian Ilsley. His place is not just round the corner (124 hospital St is close to summer lane end and Georges palce is between clifford st & gerrard St), but its not too far away
mike
 
hi mike
just got in from my travel the time is 11-30 pm this evening
and just read very valued information and of your research on my behalf ;
and now i have another part of my ancestors tree complete ,
mik i cannot thank you enough, but i would also like to thank all my fellow members and tremoudous friends in helping me with my research of my ancesters -- thanks guys ; astonian ;;;
 
In the 1911 census it shows two of my relatives as gun machinists is it posible to find out where they where employed
1. Charles William Rogers (Father ) aged 41
2. Charles William Rogers (Son) aged 17


Regards

Ron Rogers
(Australia)
 
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Re: gun trade fatories

Have you got addresses for your relatives.The Gun Quarter was an area of B,ham with lots of little work shops each having their own specific part of gun making,several of them would get together to make a complete gun.Dek
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Hi Ron straight away I think B.S.A. The Gun Quarter was in Aston some way to travel from Sparkhill but the the B.S.A.had a factory that made Armoury equipment located in Armoury Rd Small Heath,of course this is just a guess but would certainly be in the right area. Dek
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Gun quarter.
I have just read a report saying the Gun Quarter is to be renamed and known as St. Chad and St. George. The Gun Quarter is a mega part of
the history of Birmingham and Brummies should be proud of its History. This is P.C. AT ITS VERY WORST. A gun is a machine and its
the human using it that does the killing. I worked in the Gun Quarter in the 60s and am proud to be associated with it and Brum.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

woofy said:
Gun quarter.
I have just read a report saying the Gun Quarter is to be renamed and known as St. Chad and St. George. The Gun Quarter is a mega part of
the history of Birmingham and Brummies should be proud of its History. This is P.C. AT ITS VERY WORST. A gun is a machine and its
the human using it that does the killing. I worked in the Gun Quarter in the 60s and am proud to be associated with it and Brum.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you. Why do these "do gooders" think that they know what is best for us?

Barrie.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

I heard this on the radio about the Gun Quarter and my first thought was are they trying to wipe out more of the city's history. Michael worked at Greener's in the 60's and these companies were so proud of the workmanship that went into these machines. It's like trying to forget about Wars. They happened and are part of our history. So sad our pubs have been re named too what next The Jewellery Quarter. The history of guns and their manufacture in Birmingham is famous world wide what a sad day.
 
The Gun Quarter

What's this nonsense reported in today's press that Birmingham City Council propose to change the name of The Gun Quarter to St George & St Chad?

Apparently some jobsworths have listened to some complaints that a handful of residents don't like being associated with the name "Gun Quarter" with its associated reference to gun crime.

I've never read such nonsense. Thousands of men, women & children worked in the Gun Quarter for 300 years helping to make Birmingham the great city it is. The city's motto is "Forward". I suggest they think a bit more about the city's heritage and put this proposal where it belongs, in the bin.

Three generations of my ancestors worked in the gun quarter as gun barrel makers in the 19th century, father, son & grandson. They must be turning in their graves.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

I don't know about re-naming the area but guns are maybe not machines. They are posibly the finality for the reciever of the end product...no matter who is the devices operator. In times of war a neccessity of course but billions are made in trading these devices; often to despotic leaders who use them to kill their own people. Under those circumstances...perhaps not something to be proud of all of the time. I never knew anyone who had a gun and have only held one one time and thought that this was a great feature of GB...the need to have a license and no need or desire for such protection. 'The right to bear arms' should read the right to 'bare'...just roll your sleves up and get down to building something.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

50 people objected can't say how many signed keep it, but its par for the course:redface:
 
Re: gun trade fatories

I expect the Jewellery Quarter will be renamed St Pauls and All Saints - so that it doesn't encourage burglaries! I despair!!!!
 
Re: Gun Quarter Name Change

These modern, politicians never cease to horrify me with there lack of knowledge or understanding of cultural history, there wish to rewrite history from there own flawed ideological view point. Empty,wishy washy non entity's, probably not even born or bred in the area they want to vandalize. Birmingham's history was based on three things as I remember, Jewelry, Guns, and metal industry, What or why in the name of sanity would you want to change 300yr's of historical fact, and an Industry which employed thousands of Brummie's and was considered the finest of their craft in the world and had a whole sector of a city dedicated to it.????????????
paul
 
Re: gun trade fatories

I don't think that by renaming somewhere it can take away the history of the place,sadly our City has had more than its' share of
gun related murders and I can understand some people not wanting to live in a place called 'gun quarter'.

But we will always call it that and we always call it the Jewellery quarter and the Bull Ring because we always have.

Modern history books will still have to say 'the area of Birmingham known as St George and ST Chads was famous for the manufacture of guns'
 
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Re: gun trade fatories

I'm sorry to say it, but Birmingham City Council has little to be proud of about the way it has ruined the City's cultural heritage in the 74 or so years since I was born there. Having had numerous ancestors engaged in the gun trade for well over a century, I can only say that I am thoroughly disgusted about this stupid proposal. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Maurice :cool:
 
Re: gun trade fatories

just caught up with this thead and i have never heard anything so idiotic in all my life:redface:....why not go further and rename the jewellery quarter bling city. the powers that be have been slowly eating away at our heritage for the past 60 years and ive been saying for ages now that they will never learn..this seems to be the case..dont they realise that we dont want to live in the past we just want to hold onto it...i shall comment no further for fear of getting myself into hot water...

lyn
 
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Re: gun trade fatories

Couldn't agree more, one assumes that these whingers have no connection with the Gun Quarter but merely moved in there with no historical conection to it- it has been known as the Gun Quarter for obvious reaasons - where is the petition for those who want tomaintain its name???- bet there would be more than 50 signatures on that!!!
But as comments say,the council have no pride in Brums heritage, as shown with re-nnaming other places - East Birmingham becoming Heartlands being one......
Sue
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Is there a gun quarter still present there? Most of it seems to be redeveloped for housing...the seedy back garden premisses no longer there. Anyway..what if the name was 'the slave market'...would there be the same nostalgia for keeping that also. I doubt it. I can understand residents not wanting to live in a gun quarter.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Is there a gun quarter still present there? Most of it seems to be redeveloped for housing

Think someone said there is only one gun manufacturer left, but isn't that all the more reason to keep the name so people will ask "why is it called the Gun Quarter?"

We can't change the past if it was the slave market it would still hold an important significant and should be retained in some form. If it was the slave market there could be more of an argument for keeping it. Maybe the slave market would result in museums and exhibitions to ensure we didn't forget what had gone before.

A recent redevelopment in the area near to the Gun Quarter is the Crocodile works. They haven't looked at renaming that but by maintaining the name people have, as I have, have asked what's that all about and found out what went on at the Crocodile works and realised why the name should be retained.

The Gun quarter was there before the now residents moved in. Maybe they should be made aware of the significant of the area and take a pride in the name
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Leave our cultural history alone! accept the fact that we were the greatest colonial,empire ever seen on this planet and for nearly 1000 years. Lets not destroy our heritage just move on and look forward to and build a different time, if there is gun crime now its got nothing to do with our forefathers or the great historical industry they built up. If you go to Africa today many city's, have area's called the" slave markets" or "slave quarter" etc, unlike our society they aren't dogged by hysterical guilt over there past, and don't try to rewrite their history just because it is not politically correct at 'THIS' time in history.
paul
 
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