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Grogan John aka John Broughton

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Can someone please help me to find the birth/baptism of John Grogan who according to the census's was born in Birmingham abt 1834 after which he moved to Leicester where he's on the 1841 census as living with James Broughton and his wife, no relationship listed. He married in Leicester in 1857 under the name of Grogan and his Father was given as Matthew Grogan a carpenter. My GGGrandmother married as Mary Grogan in 1843 she was listed as being a widow but I've not been able to find a marriage for her, according to the marriage cert her Father was named as John Smith. On the 1851 census John Grogan is living in Leicester with Mary and her husband Thomas Allen, John is listed as being a visitor. I really want to find out what the relationship is between John Grogan and Mary Allen, is she his Mother? There is a Mary Grogan on the 1841 census for Leicestershire who could be the same one, she appears to be a servant. On the census returns John is sometimes known as Grogan and sometimes he's John Broughton, haven't been able to solve this either, any help would really be appreciated. Hope this all makes sense.
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Gags
 
Did anyone get to the bottom of this, John Broughton had children some called Grogan some called broughton ? I'm a desendant of one of the Broughton named children
 
All the info in the original post appears to be correct.

My thought would be that he was the illegitimate son of Hannah, who subsequently married (or lived with) James Broughton. She is listed as Irish in 1841 census and Grogan seems to be an Irish name.

If he was Mary's son I can't see any reason why he would sometimes call himself Broughton.

The name Matthew as his father on marriage could be made totally up or he knew his father's name was actually Matthew and it was just used in combination with his own surname.
 
There is a census entry for 1861 - John Grogan, born 1834 Birmingham. Wife Ann age 23 born Leicester
Children: George age 3 born Leicester and Ann Jane age 10 months born Leicester. This agrees with the marriage of Ann Smith and John Grogan in Leicester in 1857. On FreeBMD James Broughton is listed as marrying in the same quarter as Mary Grogan along with Thomas Allen. There is a tree on Ancestry showing the mother of Matthew Grogan's children was Mary Smith.
 
There is a burial on the 6th May 1836 , at St Philips , Birmingham of Rosina Groggan age 6 months old daughter of
Matthew Groggan and Mary Groggan of Howards Place .
 
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Which does suggest that there was an actual Matthew Grogan and possibly scuppers my theory. Unless Matthew was his uncle an he used his name on his marriage.
 
That would possibly rule out the Mary that married Thomas Allen, as they married in 1843.

Also, the Matthew Grogan that died in Wolverhampton in 1847 appears to have been 71.
 
suemalings said:
There is a census entry for 1861 - John Grogan, born 1834 Birmingham. Wife Ann age 23 born Leicester
Children: George age 3 born Leicester and Ann Jane age 10 months born Leicester. This agrees with the marriage of Ann Smith and John Grogan in Leicester in 1857. On FreeBMD James Broughton is listed as marrying in the same quarter as Mary Grogan along with Thomas Allen. There is a tree on Ancestry showing the mother of Matthew Grogan's children was Mary Smith.
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He seems to be on the 1871 as John Broughton b abt 1835 in Leicester. Wife Ann b Leics. With children George and Ann (as 1861 b Leicester) plus Albert, Clara, Joseph and Frank.
1881 no wife but still Broughton.
1891 still in same lodging as 1881 but now listed as Grogan
 
On the 1851 census Thomas and Mary have a daughter Mary born abt 1845. There is a birth registered in Leicester of a Mary Allen in 1844 with mmn as Gragan - could this be a misspelling of Grogan??
1634471043281.png
The other query is: John's age comes between Sarah and James both listed as Allen - so was Thomas married to someone who was Sarah's mother who then died and he married Mary?
 
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There is a baptism listed for Sarah Ann Allen in 1833
1634471469365.png
This confused me to start with but:
there is a death of a Mary Allen in 1837 it is registered at GRO
1634471525188.png
I also found a wedding of a Thomas Allen to Mary Merrick in 1818 at St Margarets in Leicester.

Question - did Mary Grogan mother of John Grogan) live with/marry/take the name Allen and have further children?
 
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pjmburns said:
He seems to be on the 1871 as John Broughton b abt 1835 in Leicester. Wife Ann b Leics. With children George and Ann (as 1861 b Leicester) plus Albert, Clara, Joseph and Frank.
1881 no wife but still Broughton.
1891 still in same lodging as 1881 but now listed as Grogan
Click to expand...
So strange to keep changing your last name, so it looks like I'm a Grogan not a Broughton.
 
pjmburns said:
Question - did Mary Grogan mother of John Grogan) live with/marry/take the name Allen and have further children?
Click to expand...

Mary Grogan married Thomas Allen in 1843.

But there's no proof that John Grogan's mother was Mary. If she was why would he use the name Broughton rather than Allen? Why is he not listed as step son on the 1851 census?
 
I was thinking that Mary Grogan was Thomas's second wife - both called Mary. This would explain the mmn for Sarah being a misspelt Grogan. However, that might just be her name before she married Thomas - I have seen confusion about mmn before with widows.
John born before she was involved with Thomas so not an Allen. The original question asked about a possible link between Mary and John.

Just a suggestion.
 
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Mary appears to be a widow when she married Thomas Allen. Her father's name is listed as John Smith.

Agree with mmn confusion, Mary's daughter, Mary, mmn being a misspelt Grogan instead of Smith.

If it wasn't for the use of the name Broughton I wouldn't have thought much about it, assuming he was probably Mary's son, but it does cause a little doubt, especially as John is with a James and Hannah Broughton in 1841.
 
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