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Great Hampton Street

Mikejee, thank you so much for the map and for your help, I'm most grateful :) Hopefully Natty will come back to the thread and it will help her too.



Natty...if you look at the map that mikejee has posted, where the red mark is, just under the green cross, is where my ancestors were at number 53. If you cross the road and head down towards Hockley Street on the map, your ancestors were roughly were the small white 'roof' area is, closest to Hockley Street (hope that makes sense)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi All
Re-posting another missing photo







The Church Inn

The_Church_Inn__Corner_of_Great_Hampton_St___Harford_St_Hockley_mid_1930s.jpg



















Stars
 
My g.g. grandfather and family were living at 65 Gt. Hampton Street on the 1881 census, he was a fishmonger Richard Birch,
I presume they lived on the premises, has anyone a photo of that side of the street?
 
sylv..69 and 70 are still there..they have just been done up by the conservation trust..maybe 65 is still standing..

lyn
 
Sylvia.
I don't think the building is still there . there may ahve been some slight renumbering also. In 1881 no 65 was the next but one shop from the Well St junction, which would be at
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Gr...=dFsrOxbmmZWk29iyJ-k0UA&cbp=12,54.99,,0,-0.42
No 65 being probably the right hand side of D R warehouse. But the entire building, which looks later than 1881, seems to be listed as 60-64, and shops are listed as 60-64 (D R Warehouse) or as one of these (New Hampton Lav (No 64) - my opinion of legal firms convinces me that this is a moreappropriate name than the correct New Hampton Law).
Incidently in both the 1880 and 1881 Kellys no 65 is listed as Richard Yates, fried fish shop. So maybe your ancestor lived there and supplied the fish to the frier.
mike
 
That's interesting Mike, Richard Yates is my g.grandfather and his wife Mary Ann is the daughter of Richard Birch, on the 1881 census they are living at 26 Newtown Row with their family, Richard occ. is Piston Filer and Mary Ann is Manager of Fried Fish Shop, most of my great aunts also had fish & chip shops, also my grandmother for a while but I don't know where her shop was, her name was Catherine Horton and I think it would have been between 1905/1910. One of my g.g. aunts Hannah Birch is shown as a Fish Dealer at 13 Constitution Hill, and also 51 Stafford Street, shown as Shopkeeper on the 1881 census.
 
Sylvia
There is no fried fish fryer listed in Kellys for 1904.1905, 1908 or 1910. There is a Thomas Horton, fried fish frier in 1904 (didn't look back further, but can if you want) at 177 Grove Lane Smethwick
In 1880 Hannah Birch is listed at 13 Constitution hill as fried fish shop. 51 Stafford St is listed as Joseph Fowler, fried fish dealer . not sure what the subtle difference is. again, i can expand to see how long they were there if of interest
mike
 
Thanks for the information Mike, Thomas Horton is not one of my ancestors. Re 51 Stafford Street, on the 1881 Hannah (Ana) is shown as Head, Shopkeeper also are Kate and Elizabeth her sisters, and Hannah Yates shown as adopted, but actually her neice, and Clara Pearson 14 servant. All also shown at 13 Constitution Hill. Perhaps Hannah was employed by Joseph Fowler although with so many in the family having their own shops it is a bit of a puzzle. I would indeed be grateful if you could find more information, I know on the 1891 Hannah Birch is at 127 Summer Lane with Hannah Yates and her brother Richard Birch and his wife Catherine. Catherine Birch has her own shop by 1891 at 29 Wheeler Street, employing another sister Florence.
 
Sylvia, hope this is useful: I have mainly just taken “fishy” entries, but also a few others I thought might be relevant. Missed out a number of items because they seemed a bit too different (for example a Miss Hannah Yates started a boot & shoe business in Ledsam st just about after the fish business stopped, but it might be her).

Mrs Hannah Birch
1872 fried fish dealer, 39 Gooch street
1873 fried fish dealer & tobcnst. 39 Gooch st
1878-79 fried fish dealer 7 summer row
1884-90 Birch Hannah (Mrs.), hair dresser, 263 Great Lister street
I think the Mrs Hannah Yates , hairdresser may be the Miss Hannah Yates below who has become an honorary Mrs
In 1892 it is Mrs William Birch, hairdresser at this address, and by 1895 it is William Birch hairdresser


Miss Hannah Birch
1876 -78 shopkeeper, 22 Potter's la. Aston pk
1878-80 fried fish shop 13 Constitution hill
1882-3 fried fish shop 119 Constitution hill
1884 fried fish dealer 8 constitution hill

Birch Elizabeth (Mrs.),
1876-84 shopkeeper, 69 Francis street
1884 fried fish shop,'65 Gt. Hampton st

Birch George,
1878 refreshment rooms 96 Coleshill St
1879 fried fish shop 166 Gt Brook St
1882-3 fried fish shop, 117 Coleshill street
1884 fried fish shop, 118 Coleshill street

Birch Kate (Miss),
1884 fried fish shop, 17 Coleshill street

Birch Mary Ann( Mrs.)
1884 ,refreshment ho .77 High st. Harborne

Birch Richard
1873 fried fish dealer, 60 Lancastor street
1876 .fried fish dlr.7 Summer row& 13 Constitution hill
1879 fried fish shop 112 Spring hill
1880 fried fish shop, 17 Wheeler street
1890 fried fish dealer 10 summer Lane (in 1888 it was owned by Joseph Bingham)

Birch Catherine (Miss)
1890-95 Fried fish dealer 29 Wheeler St

Birch John
1892, fried fish dealer, 127 Summer lane


Birch Joseph
1896-97, fried fish dealer, 230 Balsall Heath road

Birch Edward
1897-1910 fried fish shop 88 Cromwell St

Birch Arthur
1910, fried tish dealer, 104 Bell Barn road

Yates Richard,
1879 , fried fish seller, 26 New Town row
1880-83, fried fish seller, 26 New Town row & 65 Great Hampton street
1884 fried fish seller, 26 New Town row
(Road was renumbered from consecutive to odd one side, even other . I ‘m pretty sure 26 & 55 are the same building)
1888, fried fish seller, 55 New Town row (by 1890 it is run by Richard Allport)


Yates Hannah (Miss)
1895-7 fried fish dealer 129 Gooch St
1896-7 oyster dealer, 130 Gooch street

Yate Henry (No s)
1897-1904 Fried fish dealer 106 Coleshill St

Yates Elizabeth (Mrs)
1904 fried fish dealer 206 Wheeler St
1905 fried fish dealer, 212 Cape Hill, Smethwick

Yates, Walter

1905 fried fish dealer 53 Warley Road, Smethwick

Yates David

1912, fishmonger, 70 Market hall
1913 fishmonger, 11 & 70 Market hall

Mike
 
Mike, thanks you so much for all that information, most of them are my family, unsure of George, Edward, Arthur & Joseph, but although I will have to re-read this a few times to assimilate everything, so much ties in with what I know. William Birch was a hairdresser on the 1881 census and by 1891 so was his younger brother David. David's wife was Rose and they are at 277 Watery Lane, hairdressers on own account and has own house.

This is getting a bit confusing but Richard Allport is the brother-in-law of David Birch and they are living at 4 court, house 20 Newtown Row, so that is why he ends up managing one of the fish & chip shops.




Mike, I am so grateful for all the information you have given me, it ties in with and fills in with some of the gaps in my data.
I don't know of Edward, George, Walter & Joseph at this stage but will have to dig a bit deeper.

Richard Allport is the brother-in-law of David Birch so that explains how he came to run one of the fish shops. I also have William Birch as a hairdresser in 1881, and his younger brother David is also a hairdresser in 1891 and 1901 by then at 277
Watery Lane with his wife Rose on own account and owning his house.

I was also interested that Hannah Birch had a shop at 22 Potters Lane 1876-78, when I was a child in the 1940s I was sent to buy the News of the World from Lane's newsagents in Potters Lane, don't know the number, but seem to remember old M rs. Lane was some relation and found a William Yates living with the Lane family in Phillips Street, can't find the year at the moment.

Hannah Birch in Gooch Street is probably my gran's aunt, as the address on her marrriage certificate on 16th May 1897 is Gooch Street, and I have often wondered what she was doing straying so far from the Newtown Row/Summer Lane area.

Again many, many thanks Mike, I will certainly look further into the details.
 

Sylvia
Glad the info was useful. Following your comments I would add :

Wheeler St was renumbered from consecutive to odd one side, even other between 1882 & 1883
Richard Allport
1882 fried fish shop 17 Wheeler St (following Richard Birch in 1880 in other post)
1883-88 fried fish shop 29 Wheeler St (Same building as earlier no 17)
1890-1904 fried fish dealer 55 Newtown Row
1905 Not listed but William Floyd has taken over 55 Newtown Row

After Catherine Birch was at 29 Wheeler St (last year 1895) the shop was taken over by William Floyd (In case he is also related)

From this I would huess the f;oyds are also related.

Can’t fin any shop listed under Lane in the directories I have in that period. The only Newsagent listed 1940-1950 is named as one of the Jordan family, Edward & then his wife, and the next directory (1955) omits no 20

Hav e found the intertwining of the shops quite interesting. If the Floyds are also related and you want me to see their occupancy then let me know
Mike
 
Mike you really are a star, Florence Birch did marry a Floyd but I have a Samuel on the 1901 census, they were living at 29 Wheeler Street, showing as Refreshment House Keeper. Samuel Floyd, Florence, children Samuel 5, Martha 3 and Ada 1. I don't know whether Sam was also known as William, or whether William was Samuel's brother. The Birches certainly seemed to have quite a chain of fish shops run by various family members, don't know whether they were all owned by my g.g. grandfather or whether his children had their own businesses. By 1911 the Floyds had moved to 6 Aston Road North.

I am annoyed with myself because I made a note of the marriage of Florence and Samuel, put the reg. 6d 514 down but not the date. I suspect from the first born child would be about 1894-1896. I most grateful for all this information. My mother had told me about the connection with the fish shop trade, I know some of my grandmother's sisters also had fish shops but I don't know their married names - more digging to do.
 
Following up on the Floyds:
There seems to be both a William & a Samuel, & a Thomas & a Joseph.
This William Floyd does not appear in Kellys before 1896 (there are two , but these are a jeweller and a rule maker, and are listed separately in both 1895 & 1896)
The first fish dealers called Floyd seem to appear in 1896

William Floyd
1896-97 fried fish dealer 29 Wheeler St
1900-03 fried fish dealer 265 Gooch St
(In 1904 the fish shop at 265 Gooch St is run by Charles Harold Hill)
1905-21 Fried fish dealer 55 Newtown row

Samuel Floyd
1899-1910 fried fish dealer 29 Wheeler St
1912-21 fried fish dealer 6 Aston road north

Thomas Floyd
1897-99 fried fish dealer 61 Longmore St
1900 fried fish dealer 59 Longmore St
1903-21 fried fish dealer 55 Longmore St

(There seems to be some confusion as to the exact numbering, but I am pretty sure the 1899 and 1900 buildings are the same, on one side of the entrance to Shirley Place, with George Hiett’s coffee rooms on the other side. The no 55 in 1903 seems to be a different building)

Joseph Floyd
1903-05 Floyd Joseph, fried fish dealer, 16 Greenway st. Small hth
In 1908 the shop was Henry Harris. fried fish dealer

Have no directories between 1921 & 1932 nut Samuel is still there in 1932 and presumably has been all the time. On the electoral roll Thomas disappears from Longmore st between 1920 & 1922, leaving Sarah ann. William disappears between 1920 & 1922, and is replaced by John Thomas hill (Note Charles Harold hill took over from him at gooch St above)


Samuel Floyd
1932-67 fried fish dealer 6 Aston road north
1969 the shop seems to have been demolished

Edward. Joseph. Floyd
1932-33 fried fish dlr. 144 Devonshire st
(In 1936 shop is run by E Danks)

Sarah A. Floyd. (Mrs.),
1932-65 fried fish dealer, 55 Longmore street

I would think a number of people on the forum would have known Samuel, certainly his shop
Mike
 
Mike I really do appreciate all the effort you have made in finding this information for me, I would think from the dates of Samuel Floyd's shop at 6 Aston Road North that in the latter years perhaps 1932-1967 it would have been taken over by his son Samuel. I am finding it fascinating all these shops interlinked by marriages into the Birch/Yates/Allsop/Floyd families.
I would imagine 6 Aston Road North would have been near to the city end of the road.
 
Yes Sylia, I agree it is fascinating. No 6 is in red on the map below.It was a fish shop then also. No Douglass’s in your family was there? In 1910 it was George rose. Again any Rose’s?

Mike
map_c_1889_showing_no_6_Aston_road_north.jpg
 
I think the second picture is the one that is used on the Alan Godfrey map, lovely to see it enlarged Topsy. It's funny to think that it's the roads that are crowded now, not the pavements. What a turnabout!
 
Just seems odd doesn't it? Mmmm lets see...... I'll pop in for a swift half, then I think I'll jump on the weighing machine!! Well it's not something I'd naturally think about on a trip to the local. Alternatively, perhaps it was for commercial weighing. Viv.
 
Vivienne14 said:
Just seems odd doesn't it? Mmmm lets see...... I'll pop in for a swift half, then I think I'll jump on the weighing machine!! Well it's not something I'd naturally think about on a trip to the local. Alternatively, perhaps it was for commercial weighing. Viv.
Click to expand...
LOL no i think the purpose was to weigh the produce being delivered ( many brewed their own beer then )
 
Right, got it, Big Fella. It's amazing how much business activity was squeezed in to these places. Seems like every building has many layers, like the busy workshop(s) at the back of the pub. Viv
 
Great photo I see the Warstone Monumental Mason was next door as well!
 
I'm not sure that a commerical machine for weighing raw materials at that time would have been the sort with a dial. It would have been the steelyard type either with or without a platform to put the stuff on that was being weighed. Also , I don't think very much could be put on the paltform on that machine. Probably not a full standard sack
 
great pic of the leopold big fella..i posted this one before we lost all our pics but it was not as good as yours...

cheers

lyn
 
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