Grahame John

[Catsclaws]

I really need help on this one as I am at a huge brick wall .

Shera has helped enormously but I still am stuck .

I am looking for a Marriage between John ( possibly Thompson) Grahame and a Mary J Widdop brn Halifax
I suspect it is the Northowram Halifax Mary Jane

These names are given on Grandads John Horace Birth cert .1893 ( I have all of his certs and history )
Mary Jane Grahames Death cert 1939
1901 census Commercial Rd drapers shop Mary with 7 year old Horace ( John ) married but husband not there.
1911 census Mary Grahame still at Comercial Rd drapers shop John Horace is 17 year old carpet salesman
Mary says status is married and has been for 18 years .
1919 John Horace Marriage cert states that his dad John Grahame is a deceased Commercial Traveller .

I have sent for all Mary Widdop Marriage certs 1881,1886,1893 and 1898 and they are all wrong .
I have also bought 1 John Graham cert and that's wrong too
Without this I cant find out where he was born or who is dad is .

Now here is the interesting bit .
Shera helped me to find John Grahame snr Living in Birmingham I suspect in 1901
With Rose and Eva Grahame and the link is that he is the correct age and he is a comercial traveller in Drapery . He has young children Eva and Henry . ( not he is not in Halifax)
in 1911 census Rose Grahame is still living in Birmingham with 3 children now . Eva, 12 Ethel 9and John Henry 5 and surprise surprise John Grahame is not at home . Note she also says she is Married and not widowed .

Also I cant find any record of Marriage either . ( I smile here perhaps one of them found out and murdered him !! I would have ) Because I suspect he died around 1912 but cant find his death either .
So I wonder if there are any talented people out there who can help me solve the mystery ?? As I have run out of certificates I can send for

Many thanks in advance Jean xx

 

[Shera]

Re: John Grahame

hello jean, not sure whether i gave you the 1911 for rose grahame. they were living 14 grove rd. sparkhill

rose graham head married (14 yrs) 38 b. willenhall
henrietta fairbank sister single 42 b. willenhall
eva 12 b. malvern
ethel 9 b. bham
john henry 5 b. bham

had had 4 children but 1 had died. no sign of john grahame though.

sorry ive re-read your post and you had got that info. cant find anything else definite though. there are a couple of john graham/es born in salford lancs about 1866 but not sure if they are correct. the 1901 census did say he was born salford lancs.

 

[Mike Fisher]

Re: John Grahame

I think the clue is commercial traveller.
My wife's great grandfather was a commericial traveller he had 3 children with a women he called his wife in all certificates & censuses. Two months before the birth of the 4th child they married and after that I could not find him in any census. My wife was contacted via Tribalpages by a chap in the USA who had the same family history of his great grandfather.
It appears two months after the 4 child was born to "our" wife he had a child by another woman and went on to have a family with her and appeared with them in subsequent censuses adding another hyphenated surname. The first wife was a roman catholic and would not divorce him. The chap in the USA had been searching for a marriage and knew nothing about "our" family

 

[smtr]

Re: John Grahame

Hi Jean

Just looked at your post and it is very intriguing! I see that John graham senior was a Marine Engineer on his son Horace's birth certificate. It seems to me a little strange maybe to go from Marine Engineer to Commerical Traveller? I wonder if he told Mary Jane he was a salesman to give reason for his absences?
In the 1911 census there is a John Graham B1867 Lanark, Carluke and he is a Marine Engineer married 18 years to Adeline B1874 Middlesex and they have a son William B1895 Middlesex and apprentice engineer. They are living at 412 Central Park Road, East Ham, London. You may have already discounted this but I thought it worth a mention

Suzanne

 

[Catsclaws]

Re: John Grahame

Many Thanks so far Shera , Mike and Suzanne .
Yes it is true he is down as a Marine Engineer Sue on Horace's birth but traveling 700 miles and having 3 wives would have been just plain greedy I wonder if he travelled away from home every week .. I don't even know what a marine engineer was ... at first I thought John was from the lake district and worked on boats .
But I tend to agree with Mike about the Commercial traveller bit . I was wondering if perhaps he serviced the machines in one of the local woollen mills and from there became a Driver .
But it is so very odd that both men ended up in Birmingham if what I suspect was true of John Grahame senior .
But the irony of it all is that my Husband Ken Grahame never knew the name of his grandparents as they were never talked about as as Ken was born in 1955 they had been long dead . But isnt it strange that in 1974 he came down to Birmingham Music college and married his own Birmingham lass without ever knowing his history .
I dont know if Salford was just a Ruse Shera as a brummy cant really tell the differnce between Lancs and Yorks accent ?
Up in Halifax are many funny churches , Wesleyan and Presbyterian could a marriage happen that was not registered ?


What happened Mike when you found out ? Did you not suspect the other family ?
I sort of wonder if I should chase up living relatives of John Grahame snr in Brum but it might cause them upset .
The mystery as well of where did he die ? Did the families know of each other .
I think I just have to find a wedding cert . Mary Jane Widdop grrrr you know I have been doing this for nearly 2 years now .
Many Thanks for all your interests I dont feel quite so beaten down now .

Kind regards Jean xxx

 

[Mike Fisher]

Re: John Grahame

When I started my wife's family history my father in-law Alan King Thompson told me that the rumour was that his father John Alan Thompson had changed the family name and he did not have contact with any of his relatives. We found his real name was Alan King Gale but married under the surname Thompson giving his father as Charles Samuel Thompson. In fact his name was Charles Samuel Gale and his first and legal wife was Adelaide Maria King who re-appears as Charles Samuel Gale-Vine a very grand fellow leaving his first family in a terrace house in Aberdare, while he swanned arround in London society. One of his grandchildren was John Basil Gale-Vine better known as the actor David Garth (Emergency Ward 10, a timelord in Doctor Who and latterly A month in the country).

I had been researching my wife's family for about 15 years before the dual family was found and only because I published her tree on TribalPages.

 

[Catsclaws]

Re: John Grahame

Wow MiKe
Your story is almost unbelievable . It beggers belief that people go to such lengths to lose their family . I can understand them wanting to dump thier spouses but to dump their children as well . You were indeed fortunate to stumble on this otherwise it would have stayed a mystery for ever I think . Is this the guy that you said was a commercial Traveller ? I am afraid I have got nowhere with my Grahames so have decided to research my Florence ( My side of the family) for a few weeks and have so far found it a lot easier . I have got back to 1766 Preston Bagot .
Sorry I took so long to reply I am still reeling from the sudden death of my aunty .
Kind regards Jean