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George's Thomas ?Help finding great great grandfather, please:

  • Thread starter Thread starter ian_george
  • Start date Start date
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ian_george

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Hi
I've been having lots of luck finding all my relatives back to the 1800 or earlier, but I'm stuck on my dad's great grandfather. My dad's grandfather was Thomas George (born Middleton, Warwickshire abt 1857) and I have been able to find him ok in 1861 / 1871 / 1881 / 1891 / 1901 census records. These show up easily on Ancestry if searching with "Middleton".

The problem is that I can't find his father because his mother was already remarried to a Robert Brown in the 1861 census -- by the time that Thomas George first appeared in it: (Robert Brown: born abt 1833 in Willingham Lincs / Mary Ellen Brown born abt 1831 Aldridge Staffs).

I think I have found Mary back to 1851 and 1841 ok (father Thomas and mother Sarah), but she was not yet married in those census records and I can find no record of a marriage for any Martins to Georges in the time period between 1851 and 1861.

Thomas George had an older sister named Sarah Ann George who was born abt 1855 in Middleton, Warw and she shows up in census records after 1861 ok too -- but nothing prior, obviously.

Interestingly, Thomas married a Harriet Clarke (born New Zealand) sometime prior to 1881 and her whole family apparently moved in with them for the first few years after they arrived back in England. I'm still trying to figure out when her parents went there, but that's a riddle for another day.

Anyway, I would really love to be able to find out who Thomas and Sarah Ann's father was and trace him back a bit farther if possible too.

I've considered that they might be illegitimate, but don't you think it would be strange to have 2 children out of wedlock 2 years apart and name them anything other than the mother's maiden name? Maybe not?

Any suggestions?

Thanks very much for your time and attention
 
Re: Help finding great great grandfather, please: Thomas George's father?

Thomas George baptised 24th Sept 1857 Middleton
parents Thomas and Mary Ellen
also with same parents
Sarah Ann George baptised 11th Feb 1855 middleton

Thomas George death registered Tamworth September 1858
reference 6b 187

Certificate can be obtained online www.gro.gov.org
 
Re: Help finding great great grandfather, please: Thomas George's father?

Alberta said:
Thomas George baptised 24th Sept 1857 Middleton
parents Thomas and Mary Ellen
also with same parents
Sarah Ann George baptised 11th Feb 1855 middleton

Thomas George death registered Tamworth September 1858
reference 6b 187

Certificate can be obtained online www.gro.gov.org
Click to expand...



Wowzers!! Nice work once again, Alberta!!
This sounds perfectly correct.

If I go back to the census records now, I'm hoping that I will be able to find Thomas Sr and Thomas Jr living in the same household in 1841 or 1851.

Can I ask which search sites you normally use to find stuff like this -- or even which one you used in this case? I'm still pretty new at this and not particularly satisfied with Ancestry or Findmypast -- though they have both been very useful finding other information after a lot of trial and error

Thanks again for your wonderful work. Just think -- your little tips will be showing up in my family tree hundreds of years from now!
 
Re: Help finding great great grandfather, please: Thomas George's father?

Don't quite understand your reply Ian,you would not be able to find the 2 Thomas George in any census because Snr died the year after Jnr was born.

I have searched for Thomas snr marriage to Mary and found
Thomas George marriage to Mary Pickering 13th april 1852 Gnosall,Staffs

If you get the death cert it will have his age and will assist search of 1841/1851.

Obtaining the birth certificate with address and fathers occupation/mothers maiden name will help.

Sarah Anne George ,Tamworth Jan/Feb/Mar 1855 ref 6c 290

Thomas George Tamworth Dec 1856 ref 6b 276

to be sure they are the correct ones state father Thomas/ mother Mary Ellen.

I subscribe to Ancestry,(sometimes very good,but quite often a few gaps). Alberta
 
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Re: Help finding great great grandfather, please: Thomas George's father?

Thomas George
Birth: About 1826 Of Fisher'S Mill, Middleton, Warwick, En
Marriages:
Spouse: Mary Ellen Martin
Birth: 1830 Aldridge, Stafford, England

Will this help?

Pom
 
Re: Help finding great great grandfather, please: Thomas George's father?

The only Thomas George that I can find in Tamworth in 1841Census is this one with wife Sarah:

Place: Warwick -Warwickshire
Civil Parish: Tanworth
Address: Earlswood
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born
GEORGE Thomas M 60 Ag Lab Warwickshire
GEORGE Sarah F 50 Outside Census County (1841)
PALMER Joseph M 20 Boatman Warwickshire
PALMER Elizabeth F 30 Warwickshire
PALMER Ann F 4 Warwickshire
PALMER Jane F 1 Warwickshire

There was also this family with a son Thomas in Alcester:

Place: Alcester -Warwickshire
Civil Parish: Alcester
Address: Bleachfield

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born
GEORGE Thomas M 45 Ag Lab Warwickshire
GEORGE Eliza'th. F 40 Warwickshire
GEORGE Thos M 25 Warwickshire
GEORGE William M 15 Warwickshire
GEORGE Joseph M 12 Warwickshire
GEORGE Eliza'th. F 10 Warwickshire
GEORGE Rosa F 8 Warwickshire
GEORGE Robert M 6 Warwickshire
GEORGE Ellen F 3 Warwickshire
 
Re: Help finding great great grandfather, please: Thomas George's father?

1851,Lower stonnall, Shenstone,Staffs
(close to Aldridge birthplace of Mary Ellen)

Thomas George age 25 Miller ,unmarried,born Bitterley, Hereford

I do so hope Thomas is a miller on the marriage or birth certificates.
 
Re: Help finding great great grandfather, please: Thomas George's father?

Hey I wonder if these two chaps could be related to Thomas and Mary. May be that's how they met each other having a brother, or relative in the same gaol at the same time.
(1841 Census)
Place: Branch & Dole -Wiltshire
Civil Parish: Fisherton Anger -
Address: County Gaol Of Wiltshire
GEORGE George M 20 Prisoner - Miller
MARTIN William M 20 Prisoner - Labourer


Ian, Also the Shenstone Staff's info' from Alberta ties in with your Thomas George on your other thread.
 
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Re: Help finding great great grandfather, please: Thomas George's father?

I think Pom hit the nail with her Fisher's Mill note above, as I see young Thomas along with his Mother (Mary Ellen), sister (Sarah Ann), new stepfather (Robert Brown), and his new step-siblings living at an address listed as Fisher's Mill, Middleton, Warwickshire in 1861 census.

Thanks very much to both of you for your efforts here. You do wonderful work and I'm sure you must find it very rewarding to help connect members with their long lost forebears. It kind of feels like we're bringing people back to life -- or at least back together with their children -- when we make connections like this
 
Re: Help finding great great grandfather, please: Thomas George's father?

Be careful you don't mix up Tamworth and Tanworth - the Tanworth, Earlswood in the 1841 census Pomgolian found is Tanworth in Arden, a quaint little village near to the Earlswood Lakes (and where parts of the old soap opera Crossroads was filmed).
Tamworth is a much larger town, roughly between Birmingham and Nottingham
 
Re: Help finding great great grandfather, please: Thomas George's father?

Thanx for that Lloyd... It seems that I also missed the fact that it was not just a transcription error, but a totally different area.
 
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