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George Horton of Bordesley Green

It's a step up in the tree I haven't completed yet Tuppence, I have the link from the Latter day saints site but haven put it in the tree yet.
 
Eric Gibson said:
It's a step up in the tree I haven't completed yet Tuppence, I have the link from the Latter day saints site but haven put it in the tree yet.
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Sorry I dont understand. I haven't got a subscription to Ancestry so i can't see any of the trees.
 
I've looked at the tree but sorry i still don't understand:

I thought George's mother's name was Clara?

Sarah Gibson née Terry: you said she was your 'great grandfather's wife'. By that did you mean your great grandmother, or an earlier / second wife?
 
I think Eric was just stating that he had the Horton name in his ancestry, not imply a connection. Horton is a more common name than I thought.

Your George's mother was called Clara (nee Tarrant).

There doesn't seem to be any obvious connection between your Hortons and Eric's.
 
Ah ok. Thanks. Horton is fairly common but Wauman is not. I'd love to get some idea if the medals were given to Minnie Wauman. I can't see her husband in any service records though.
 
Yes MWS that's correct, in my tree (link in my last post) I have Sarah Gibson nee Terry, her parents were David Terry and Sarah Ann Horton 1816-1898.
Sorry if it's caused confusion.
 
pjmburns said:
Tuppenny - not sure where you are but a visit to Birmingham Archives and a check on the paper erolls (open access) would allow you to check when your relatives moved in and when Edith moved out of 32.
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I've got more details on my timeline now. There's at least 11 years between my relatives the Bennetts arriving and the death of Edith, so it seems unlikely that she gave the medals to the Davises due to going into hospital / a home, and they forgot them when they moved out. We have no reason to think George had ever met the Davises (he died before they moved in), so his medals wouldn't be meaningful to them and it would be weird to give them as a gift.

Minnie on the other hand, died in Selly Oak Hospital while living alone at 27, and her probate was completed very quickly, which makes me think her house was sold pretty sharpish.

I've therefore written a new post asking about the Waumons.
 
Updated timeline:

1879
Thomas Wauman born Birmingham

1882
George Horton born

1901 - 2
George in Boer War

1905
George marries Fanny Elizabeth

1908
Gladys Penelope Horton born

1911
George on Birmingham census with Fanny and 2 children Edith May and Gladys Penelope

1914 - 1918
George WW1

1921
Thomas and Minnie Waumon living Drummond Road

1937
Waumons at 27 Daniels Road. Son Brian Thomas marries Ada Carter at Victoria Road baptist church.

1939
George, Fanny, Edith at 32
Gladys son Robert Ireland born
Waumans at 27

1948 Dec
Thomas Wauman dies at 27, aged 77

1950
George, Fanny, Edith at 32
Minnie Wauman at 27

1953 June
Coronation commemorative medallion added to tin

1954
George died 8 May

1957
Fanny and Edith at 32
March Minnie dies living at 27 but in Selly Oak Hospital

1960
Fanny and Edith at 32
Fanny dies October
Robert and Rosetta Davis at 27

1965
Only Edith at 32
Robert and Rosetta at 27

Late 60s
? at 32
Bennetts at 27 ? Bought house off a couple with an adult son with learning disabilities

1976
? at 32
Brian Wauman dies in Paignton
Bennetts at 27

1987
Edith died but not living at 32
Bennetts at 27

1995
Gladys dies Solihull aged 87

2001
Robert Ireland dies aged 62

2003
Last Bennett dies aged 102, the medals come to Tuppenny Rice
 
Tuppenny Rice said:
Updated timeline:


1987
Edith died but not living at 32
Bennetts at 27
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Edith was at 108 Sheldon Heath Road. As far as I can tell this is an ordinary house although it does look as if it might be elderly people housing. (looks very like the place my Gran moved to several years before that date).
 
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pjmburns said:
As far as I can tell this is an ordinary house although it does look as if it might be elderly people housing.
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It's a classic council house. I lived in one with the exact same little concrete thing over the door, on an estate with every house the same. Right to Buy was 1985 so probably someone made a quick buck and then flogged it to Edith lol.
 
pjmburns said:
We don't know when she moved do we?
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No, only that she was in Daniels Road in 1965. I don't see how she'd have qualified for a largish council house, so I'm not entirely joking when I say it was probably a right to buy and then quick sale. At the time, people didn't know how long the policy might last.
 
I don't think Edith gave away the medals. My reasoning is...

Medals are personal and these wouldn't have been valuable back then. No other items were found with them as far as I know, so this isn't a cache of generic 'things an old lady was worried about being stolen'. Edith seems not to have moved out of Daniels Road in a hurry into an old folks home. Why would she or Fanny then give Georges medals to people who'd never met him? A couple would be unlikely to be so worried about burglars that they'd hide things so thoroughly they forgot about them when they moved out. Looking at the timeline, I think it's also fairly likely that Edith was still at 32 when the Davises sold 27.

Minnie on the other hand was living alone and died in hospital. Not even the nearby one, but Selly Oak. She had lived near George and Fanny for at least 15 years. The war had happened in that time, and both women had been widowed. Fanny and Edith might even have asked Brian about the medals after Minnie died, but they weren't found. Minnie's probate was done in 3 weeks, so Brian must have wanted to sell / vacate the house quickly.

My mum doesn't know much about the finding of the medals but she did mention that she has the impression they had been there 'a long time'.
 
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There's just too much unknown to make a reasonable guess as how they ended up where they did. You don't really know when, to whom or even if they were given to someone.

It's an interesting mystery but seems almost impossible to resolve with any certainty.
 
With help from you all and members of angloboerwar.com and greatwarforum.org I have completed a bio for George.. marvel at his adventures!

PS I compared the censuses and none of George's siblings died as far as I can see, there was a mistake where one girl was called Sarah in 1891 and Jane in 1901, but the ages tally up. So the 8 siblings were:

Charles jr, George, Emily, William, Sarah/Jane, Clara jr, Henry and Herbert
 

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A very nice bio.

A slight error. If it was 11ct 7h they lived at then that is no. 7 in court 11. It would be unlikely that it was close to the actual no. 7 Warwick St and it was probably the same address as no. 7 back 89.

Also there was probably another sibling, Arthur, b and d reg. Sep 1895 Aston. Also Sarah was reg. as Sarah Jane and Clara as Clara Ann.
 
Below are the maps from 1889 and 1950. By 1950 most of the houses are gone but there a few left to show the way the numbering went and also there is the White Swan which was no. 90. It is not marker on the earlier map but you can see the shape of the building is the same. Which proves that no. 7 court 11 and no. 7 back of 89 were the same house...

0 - Warwick St.jpg 0 - Warwick Street White Swan.jpg
 
The registration has mmn Tarrant which makes it likely but as he doesn't appear anywhere else then you would need to see the birth certificate to be certain. Theoretically he could be the son of a different Horton/Tarrant couple or there could be a mistake with one of the names.

I think he is their son, the names are uncommon enough, but you can't be totally certain just from the reg.
 
MWS said:
The registration has mmn Tarrant which makes it likely but as he doesn't appear anywhere else then you would need to see the birth certificate to be certain. Theoretically he could be the son of a different Horton/Tarrant couple or there could be a mistake with one of the names.

I think he is their son, the names are uncommon enough, but you can't be totally certain just from the reg.
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Could be, she would have been about 43 and died a couple of years later. Probably worn out. The Victorians had a name for sickly children born late to women already worn out by childbirth - 'January Chickens', from a farming term for scrawny chicks from eggs laid just before the hen was slaughtered :(
 
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I'm pleased to report on the sale of George's tin and contents.. they've been bought by a lovely collector in Scotland who has a special interest in the Scots Rifles. He likes to keep medals 'real' - he doesn't put on new ribbons or restore anything. I've sent him the bio and other documents. I'm very happy with this conclusion, I will keep photos and copies myself, so if any Horton should happen to drop by here, please do PM me and I'll be happy to share. I'm really glad George's memory will be kept safely. Thanks for all your help :)
 
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A descendent of one of George's sisters has seen this thread and got in touch by PM! Sadly too late to give the medals, but great news. I've shared all the info I have.

I will update in due course if they are OK to share info.
 
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