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George Derrington & Emma Green

K

kooglescriber65

master brummie
Hi All,
Does anyone have any info or photo's of my Great Grandfather George Derrington.
He married Emma Green , He died in 1900.
1871 census shows he was living with Emma Green in no. 5 back of 182 Great Russell St.
with 7 children.
 
Eldest daughter Mary appears to be born before they were married, maybe just Emma's.

Between 1871 and 1881 they seem to have had 5 son James, James, Charles, Walter and Edward who all died young. A daughter Sarah b1883 also died young.

Only a daughter Emma b1881 seemed to survive in addition to the ones on the 1871 census.

Living McDonald St in 1881 and Well St 1891.
 
In case you didn't know...

George was George Henry Derrington, the son of William Derrington and Sarah Wheeler.

Emma was the daughter of James Green and Mary Mann. James and Mary were born in Suffolk.
 
Much appreciated, MWS, I was wondering about George’s middle name and sent off for a copy of his birth certificate. Also that’s interesting about Mary being born out of wedlock. I have a record of him being in the workhouse in 1864 and his trade listed as gunmaker also labourer. He had a hard life I think. ( Who wouldn't with 7 kids)
 
Two of his sons Samuel (1887) and William (1885) are in the newspapers being charged with theft. Also George (1883) charged with burglary, probably the son but could be the father.
 
MWS said:
Two of his sons Samuel (1887) and William (1885) are in the newspapers being charged with theft. Also George (1883) charged with burglary, probably the son but could be the father.
Click to expand...
Hi MWS, that is really interesting. My grandfather was William. Do you have the newspaper clip?
It’s starting to look like they were a right old family, moving all the time and being on the wrong side of the law.
 
They are available on findmypast but I don't have a subscription.

William - 20 Mar 1885, Warwickshire Herald. Charged with stealing 2s and 3d from the shop of John Noakes.

Samuel - 16 Mar 1887 & 6 Apr 1887 Birmingham Daily Post. Charged with stealing a box of tea.

George - 15 Sep 1883 Birmingham Mail. Arrested in act of disposing of stolen property.

The Wells St address is mentioned for all 3 articles.
 
I
MWS said:
They are available on findmypast but I don't have a subscription.

William - 20 Mar 1885, Warwickshire Herald. Charged with stealing 2s and 3d from the shop of John Noakes.

Samuel - 16 Mar 1887 & 6 Apr 1887 Birmingham Daily Post. Charged with stealing a box of tea.

George - 15 Sep 1883 Birmingham Mail. Arrested in act of disposing of stolen property.

The Wells St address is mentioned for all 3 articles.
Click to expand...
mamy thanks for the info.
I do have a copy of Emma Green’s birth certificate and it shows her mother as Eliza Grove not Mary Mann. ?
 
kooglescriber65 said:
Hi All,
Does anyone have any info or photo's of my Great Grandfather George Derrington.
He married Emma Green , He died in 1900.
1871 census shows he was living with Emma Green in no. 5 back of 182 Great Russell St.
with 7 children.
Click to expand...
No photos of your grandfather I'm afraid, but this is where he lived.
 

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kooglescriber65 said:
I

mamy thanks for the info.
I do have a copy of Emma Green’s birth certificate and it shows her mother as Eliza Grove not Mary Mann. ?
Click to expand...

I think, though I can't be certain, that you may have the wrong one.

On the 1881 census living with George and Emma is a Reuben Green, listed as a brother in law.

The Emma, daughter of James and Eliza, doesn't appear to have had a brother called Reuben. However the Emma, daughter of James and Mary, did.

Also I think that Emma, daughter of James and Eliza, is still single and living with her parents on the 1871 census. The age is incorrect but as far as I can see everything else matches. Unfortunately the 1871 census is not completely available on familysearch so can't check it properly.

Reuben is registered with mmn Mann and Emma is registered as Emily (a fairly common mix up) with mmn Mann, though baptised as Emma.
 
MWS said:
I think, though I can't be certain, that you may have the wrong one.

On the 1881 census living with George and Emma is a Reuben Green, listed as a brother in law.

The Emma, daughter of James and Eliza, doesn't appear to have had a brother called Reuben. However the Emma, daughter of James and Mary, did.

Also I think that Emma, daughter of James and Eliza, is still single and living with her parents on the 1871 census. The age is incorrect but as far as I can see everything else matches. Unfortunately the 1871 census is not completely available on familysearch so can't check it properly.

Reuben is registered with mmn Mann and Emma is registered as Emily (a fairly common mix up) with mmn Mann, though baptised as Emma.
Click to expand...
Blimey now I am confused!
 
MWS said:
Also I think that Emma, daughter of James and Eliza, is still single and living with her parents on the 1871 census. The age is incorrect but as far as I can see everything else matches. Unfortunately the 1871 census is not completely available on familysearch so can't check it properly.
Click to expand...
This is the transcribed entry from Ancestry
1631378276464.png
I think the Emma is very hard to read on the original
1631378336943.png
 
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It certainly looks like the Green/Grove family. Emma should be about 30 and Mary Jane about 24.

I can't see anyone else on 1851/1861 census who I could have mixed them up with.
 
Well, I’ve checked the marriage certificate and both George and Emma have the age of 21 so if you take 21 away from the date on the certificate it comes out at 1841 which is the date Emma was born so it works for me. What I cannot work out is the mention of Ruben on the census?
 
Both Emma's were born at a similar time, both their father's were called James and they were both in a similar trade, brick making.

Ruben is the key. There's no reason for it to be made up so your Emma must have had a brother Emma, which would make her the daughter of the James Green that married Mary Mann.
 
kooglescriber65 said:
Well, I’ve checked the marriage certificate and both George and Emma have the age of 21 so if you take 21 away from the date on the certificate it comes out at 1841 which is the date Emma was born so it works for me. What I cannot work out is the mention of Ruben on the census?
Click to expand...

MWS is referring to the 1881 census which has "Reuben Green brother in law" - he has to be Emma's brother but the Emma who is the daughter of James and Eliza does not have a brother called Reuben. However, the Emma who is the daughter of James and Mary Mann does have a brother called Reuben.
1631384384883.png
1631384422907.png

1631384143351.png
 
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Hi PJM, Thank you for joining in what is turning out to be quite a journey today for me.
So, if you are both correct, it means I have the wrong Emma. I attach her birth certificate for your interest anyway which
shows a registration in February 1841.
 

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Hi both,
This is the only record I can find with the right dats but it is James Green and MARY ANN not MANN is this the right one?
 

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One slight anomaly is the baptism lists her birth as 7th July 1842 but looks to be crossed out with highlighter.

As mentioned previously she was registered as Emily (I'd assume it would appear on the birth certificate also) but her registration was Jun qtr 1842 Birmingham.
 
MWS said:
One slight anomaly is the baptism lists her birth as 7th July 1842 but looks to be crossed out with highlighter.

As mentioned previously she was registered as Emily (I'd assume it would appear on the birth certificate also) but her registration was Jun qtr 1842 Birmingham.
Click to expand...
The highlighter was me.
 
Emma and Reuben (and other siblings) are with their parents in Bham on 1851 census.

Birthplace of James, Mary, brother Charles and sister Mary Ann is listed as Carlby, Suffolk.
 
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On the 1841 census they are living in Coleshill St - James, Mary and 9 children.

Only the youngest is listed as being born in the county. He appears to be at least the second child they named Walter, the first b and died in 1838 (reg Aston).
 
kooglescriber65 said:
Hi both,
This is the only record I can find with the right dats but it is James Green and MARY ANN not MANN is this the right one?
Click to expand...
I don't think this is the right Emma. There is another Emma born in the Jul - Sep quarter
1631484010679.png
There is also a marriage of a James Green to a Mary Ann Lowe in 1840 in Birmingham.

That said there seem to be several Emma Greens born in 1842 in Birmingham or Aston.
 
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