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George and Dragon Albion Street
- Thread starter Vivienne14
- Start date
Thanks Carolina. Will look into it. Thanks to Ell too for his photos. Can see a bit more of the brickwork and exterior details from those. When it was re-developed in the 1860/70s the focus of the building was definitely shifted from the corner of Pope St/ Albion St to the corner of Albion St/Carver St. And then in the twenties the extension on Carver St seems to be quite important judging by the entrance. I wonder if this was a purpose built dance hall? Viv.
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Looking again at this photo there are a few points of interest.
You can see clearly a join in the brickwork between the phases of re-development. Also the big pub adverting sign is placed centrally above the two windows in the older part of the building. And there's a bollard outside the corner entrance on Pope St/Albion St (I presume to protect those exiting (stumbling?!) from the pub). These all suggest the original entrance was on that corner of Pope Street.
The photo must be pre 1922 as they have chosen to take it from this angle and not include the view of the modern extension on Carver Street. So perhaps it was just before the 1922 extension was built. The clothes look like that period.
A lot of money must have been spent in developing the pub. Although the upper levels have very different styled windows, the lower level was made to be consistent from Carver St right across to Pope St. And it's a good sized pub. So business must have been brisk.
Viv.
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You can see clearly a join in the brickwork between the phases of re-development. Also the big pub adverting sign is placed centrally above the two windows in the older part of the building. And there's a bollard outside the corner entrance on Pope St/Albion St (I presume to protect those exiting (stumbling?!) from the pub). These all suggest the original entrance was on that corner of Pope Street.
The photo must be pre 1922 as they have chosen to take it from this angle and not include the view of the modern extension on Carver Street. So perhaps it was just before the 1922 extension was built. The clothes look like that period.
A lot of money must have been spent in developing the pub. Although the upper levels have very different styled windows, the lower level was made to be consistent from Carver St right across to Pope St. And it's a good sized pub. So business must have been brisk.
Viv.
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Viv
To add a (very) little, on the Pigott smith map which is described as 1828 ( though it cannot be certain that it wasn't slightly earlier) Pope St & Carver st are on the map and named, but the entire area between them, other than at the top by Icknield St, is open as nurseries or the like, with no buildings.
To add a (very) little, on the Pigott smith map which is described as 1828 ( though it cannot be certain that it wasn't slightly earlier) Pope St & Carver st are on the map and named, but the entire area between them, other than at the top by Icknield St, is open as nurseries or the like, with no buildings.
thanks mike...as you say the map could have been slightly earlier than 1828 so we could have a window as to if the pub was there in the 1820s/30s..good to know though that at least the streets were named by then...
cheers
lyn
Thanks Mike. All adds useful info to the picture we're building up. By any chance do you have a map showing the building between the Piggit Smith map and the 1860s/70s? Viv
Many thanks Mike. I've also searched around and it seems the section of the road where the G & D pub stands was once Legge Lane. Am I reading this right? Here's an 1841 map which is on B'ham gov site
I also believe that the pub dates to about the same time as the buildings on the opposite side of the road. Many similar features to the upper floors of the G&D corner on Pope Street. (Same brickwork, same sills, same brickwork above windows, same window arrangement but with different glazing bars). Can we find out the dates of these buildings? The pic is of the building next door to Jones and Palmer, Albion St. Viv.
I also believe that the pub dates to about the same time as the buildings on the opposite side of the road. Many similar features to the upper floors of the G&D corner on Pope Street. (Same brickwork, same sills, same brickwork above windows, same window arrangement but with different glazing bars). Can we find out the dates of these buildings? The pic is of the building next door to Jones and Palmer, Albion St. Viv.
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hi viv....it looks as though they maybe didnt have enough space to put legge lane where it should be on the 1841 map...where the word legge is should be albion st unless of course they nicked that bit of legge lane and incorporated it into the rest of albion st...but personally i think its just the way the map is written but cant be sure on that one..just going to have a look at your previous post...
lyn
lyn
Could be Lyn. Not too sure. I sense (I.e not based on any fact!) that the road changed in front of the G&D for some reason. Can't find evidence but thought it might be because of the building of fire station.
Here's another thing I 'sense' (but could turn embarrassingly into 'non sense' !). I think the original G&D was a house on the corner of Pope Street/Albion Street like the ones further down Albion Street I.e these two
Looking closely at the features of the G&D you can see the windows are pretty much the same except for the glazing. The bricks above are the same. And the general brickwork is the same arrangement (Flemish - had to look that up!) . It would be good to know if the bricks are smooth or course because that could help to date that corner of the pub.
All the usual guesswork and prepared to end up with egg on my face! But it's good to debate it. And I think it's worth looking at it now whilst things are exposed on the building. Viv.
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Here's another thing I 'sense' (but could turn embarrassingly into 'non sense' !). I think the original G&D was a house on the corner of Pope Street/Albion Street like the ones further down Albion Street I.e these two
Looking closely at the features of the G&D you can see the windows are pretty much the same except for the glazing. The bricks above are the same. And the general brickwork is the same arrangement (Flemish - had to look that up!) . It would be good to know if the bricks are smooth or course because that could help to date that corner of the pub.
All the usual guesswork and prepared to end up with egg on my face! But it's good to debate it. And I think it's worth looking at it now whilst things are exposed on the building. Viv.
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i agree viv the windows are very similar and the brickwork..hard to tell if the brickwork is corse or smooth..think i will try and get down there very soon..may not be of any help but worth a closer look..oh and dont you just love the old sign in your photo...seen it many times as i have walked past there..
i agree viv the windows are very similar and the brickwork..hard to tell if the brickwork is corse or smooth..think i will try and get down there very soon..may not be of any help but worth a closer look..oh and dont you just love the old jones and palmer sign in your photo...seen it many times as i have walked past there..oops im repeating myself now lol
Hi Ell. It seems to have been a hard slog for the developers in terms of financing etc. There's no mention of current heritage/conservation support in the original news article (except that it's simply listed). I'd have thought some heritage interests would have actively been involved. This building has listed status because of the way the site has developed over (possibly nearly) 200 years. That in itself is surely enough to have heritage interests involved? It would be great if we could uncover as much of its history as we can and show it's development and place in the context of the Jewellery Quarter. There just doesn't seem to be too much going on in that sense, almost like 'it's a seriously derelict building, would cost too much money to put right, let's give up and go home' approach. But no point in letting that stop us investigating!! At least the developers have the foresight to try and make it waterproof for the winter. Longer term, who knows. But well done to them. Viv.
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Exactly Ell. The plans at the moment are restaurant downstairs and accommodation upstairs. Been watching with interest what's going on at the Coffin Works and it's a great example. But these places need to have a good reason for people to make the effort to visit them. If the G&D is to serve food, it has to be good food, and a serious alternative or option compared with all the other restaurants nearby. With the regeneration going on around the building, let's hope it has future as a part of that. Viv.
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Charlie
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
Went to the G&D today. Took photos but it still looks the same i.e. lots of scaffolding! Will post the photos when I have time tomorrow (Sunday).
As to business/restaurants/pubs in the area, there's a new development in Warstone Lane underneath the Big Peg where they're busy doing Golden Plaza (a sort of sitting out/open space area) so lots of the area fenced off and difficult to get to, the only entrances were walkways via Vyse Street or Warstone Lane. We went into the new coffee shop - Urban Coffee(?) and it was heaving at 2.00pm. After our walk round we went back in at 3.30pm and it was even busier! Quite a sizeable cafe and absolutely buzzing with ....erm ....trendy type youngsters.
As to business/restaurants/pubs in the area, there's a new development in Warstone Lane underneath the Big Peg where they're busy doing Golden Plaza (a sort of sitting out/open space area) so lots of the area fenced off and difficult to get to, the only entrances were walkways via Vyse Street or Warstone Lane. We went into the new coffee shop - Urban Coffee(?) and it was heaving at 2.00pm. After our walk round we went back in at 3.30pm and it was even busier! Quite a sizeable cafe and absolutely buzzing with ....erm ....trendy type youngsters.
That's good news Charlie. Even if it's full of young trendies, I'm all for it, that's good business. Better than letting the places fall into decline. Youngsters have the cash to support these things. And the more 'mature' person often follows as a daytime visitor - or wanders in oblivious! Look forward to the photos. Viv.
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Charlie
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
The coffee was good Lyn. As you know, I'm definitely young and trendy so fitted in nicely!
Any road up, difficult to get any decent photos, the scaffolding was a bit like me - dense!
This is the archway on the Carver Street side of the pub, nice to see it still there.
(I poked my camera through the scaffolding for these)
Any road up, difficult to get any decent photos, the scaffolding was a bit like me - dense!
This is the archway on the Carver Street side of the pub, nice to see it still there.
(I poked my camera through the scaffolding for these)
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Thanks Charlie. If the scaffolding puts people off trying to get in that's great. One of the problems as we know is when access is easy, arson, looting etc follows. Sadly I think this has already happened to the G&D. All the fake pillars around the building entrances have certainly disappeared. So unlikely to be much original stuff inside. I'd also be interested to see the interior layout especially in relation to the 1920s extension. That's one fancy entrance for it to just be an extension. Thanks for your report Charlie! Viv.
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Brookfields Lad
master brummie
I used to drink in there when I were a teenager in the sixties. Lived down the road in New Spring St. That area will become popular and will need a coffee bar of sorts plus other eating places when the new Perry Beeches Acadamy school opens in the old Swan Kettle works and the new Assay office opens down the road.