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George and Dragon Albion Street

Vivienne14

Kentish Brummie Moderator
Staff member
One to watch for positive reasons. Despite backers pulling out, development still continuing with this grade II listed pub in the Jewellery Qtr. Won't be returned to a pub but at least the fabric of the building will be preserved. Recognised as a difficult investment because of the likely return on the enterprise, but they're pushing on with it. That's determination. Wish them good luck. Viv.

https://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/regeneration/george-dragon-breathe-again-renovation-7825346


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Vivienne14. With the lack of housing, industry and peoples reluctance to go for a pint after work and then get Public Transport home from around the old George and Dragon, whatever business is being developed will probably struggle. Shame really, small enterprise deserves all the help it can get.
 
Vivienne14. With the lack of housing, industry and peoples reluctance to go for a pint after work and then get Public Transport home from around the old George and Dragon, whatever business is being developed will probably struggle. Shame really, small enterprise deserves all the help it can get.
Hi viv, as far as I am concerned it was a white elephant from the mid sixties through to the eighties
The only trade they got then was area surrounding factories at lunch time and the main bulk of the work force used it was good old bull Pitts
At the evening after 7 o'clock it ease always emptied Saturday lunch time yes area for the day but night time trade no
As you says at one time there was family's and drinkers all packed houses but then tnecluncil co around and stzart bulldozing the area
I was a drinker around the area just like our friend mossy whom will also known the area whom we would see quite often ,but Albion street was off the beaten track
And a quite and lonely back street it was the likes of bullpitts that kept that place going when they pulled out it died.
Also it was the life,es of the mint pub the turf the red lion war stone lane the coach and horse the queens the inglby arms and the war stone pub
That was the vibrant pubs oh and of course the old wind mill opersite dudley road hospital and the college another top pub
The Albion maybe in the early 1900s and early fifties yes may be but from the sixties it was never to be
I lived up the road at kingedwards rd just by spring hill they did build a new public pub called the florin. Ext to thespringhill library
It was to replace the war stone pub which they demolished but two years later they closed it down because of the violence and stabbing etc
And I am sure my old and the forum friend Missy can put an input on this as well if he sees the thread and I know mossy used to use the Albion as well
Best Wishes Astonian,,,,,,,Alan,,,,,
 
thanks viv....been watching this one for some years now...lets hope its full steam ahead from here on in...

lyn
 
A bumpy history Lyn, Alan and Jimbo but let's hope this building can be kept alive. As Alan points out, it's unlikely it will ever succeed as a pub, but for the sake of the architecture, let's hope this development works. Hope so. Viv.


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A bumpy history Lyn and Alan, but let's hope this building can be kept alive. As Alan points out, it's unlikely it will ever succeed as a pub, but for the sake of the architecture, let's hope this development works. Hope so. Viv.


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totally agree with you viv...
 
Agree Jimbo, small businesses need all the help they can get. Creative thinking plus past history plus logistics and some financial support - surely it can be made to work in some way? I so hope so. These are lovely buildings, offering a great environment in which to work/live/visit/use/enjoy. They've more to offer than new buildings without a past. At least this one has some enthusiastic people behind it. So let's do our best to support/publicise/scream blue murder if it's threatened etc etc! End of rant. Keep yer eye on it Lyn. Ta ....Viv.


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Hi viv,I have to agree with jimbo all the way about his points of view as to what he stated about dropping off for a pint ,
Well unless you know the area as I do very much so of today through and through and look at warstone lane and the state its in
Along ickneild street and around carver street up to
Powell street its very bleak Barron land as for the housing community its a no go area walk down Powell street down to summer hill
To cross over to what was once the roller rink believe me you would notwanttocross the line so to speak
And if ylou walked down on summer hill by the sand Pitts across to what was Nelson street and the school is even more isolated
And danger so you would come to sheepcote street and from there up the hill the taxis would never dream of dropping you off up there her alone come tlhlur front door to take you any where when you bet a taxi home to that part of the area the taxi driver will say sorry we do not godown the rd
You have to walk the rest
Sadly that as what become of that area many years ago it would have worked but by today's sxtannards no it will of
If Mr. Sand thinking well it could be close to the Nia Centre people would go there for a meal or a drink with family
But is a dammed good walk and believe me Ladywood nick would be running around .like mad
As Lynn says yes its a nice looking building with character and yes in the early years of day us life time of growing up around there
And in the early years KT was a very nice hard working comuneity but by the sixties it was a ghostly pub and building
Right up until the eighths still standing empty sad to say but that's the fact years ago the rose ville pub was as busy as new street station all those years day and
Night but. Over the years it declined they done fantastic food
I can not for the love nor money think why this gentleman begins to think yes a brand new pub restaurant it will. Be great
If you know the area very well your self think about what's the closest you have st Paul square down and around a block or two
With these good selection of clubs and resturuants how are they making out big question
But with out. Knocking people and take a look around the area it comes under Ladywood and KT well publish used
By the media and councillors it is themostceprivepeople of Birmingham whom cannot afford these pints or restaurants
Its the same as Shockley
Does he think ingestion street and surrounding roads are people with money or is he thinking he can get those yuppies from broad street to used it
I think he his making a big mistake or does he think by building apartments next the corner of the mint they may make among for that pub resturuant
Believe me viv take a stroll over the road from Powell street and at any given time I think you will get the drift
I am in no way being offensive to anybody but its plain to see that building is still isolated from community as it was for all those years
Best wishes Alan,,Astonian,,,,,,
 
That's a sad situation Alan. If it's so deserted, inhospitable and neglected, it's the Council's job to change that. Must be in their plans somewhere, but I don't suppose it's a priority if it's been so neglected for so long. Pity. At the same time though, these people are prepared to try. And after what you've told us, I say hats off to them, a much, much bigger challenge than I thought. Thanks Alan. Viv.


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alan i totally see where you are coming from on this one...you are quite right about the streets that you have mentioned..no housing anymore just factories/offices etc so the area is desololate at night time so really i dont think any of the pubs in the jewellery quarter could be called yer local...but what is happening is that pubs such as the jewellers arms..rose villa tavern and the red lion are catching the people who work in the area of the jewellery quarter so day time business is very brisk although having said that i was recently in the red lion warstone lane on the night time and it was packed..st pauls square is very up market now with over priced eating places in my opinion but they still seem to do well even at night time...i can actually see the george and dragon doing very well with the planned restaurant as eating establishments seem to be the way forward these days...can also see the planned apartments being snapped up as well simply because of its location...birminghams jewellery quarter is world famous attracting many thousands of visitors every year and because it is also very close to the city centre the planned apartments would be ideal for rich business men/women to live in during the week if they live outside birmingham but work in the city centre..i for one wish it well as we must keep this very important and historical part of our city alive...

lyn
 
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So basically it must have real potential then Lyn. That's good to hear.

The area attracted lottery funding earlier in the year (and Albion St is specifically mentioned) https://www.hlf.org.uk/news/Pages/JewelleryQuarterDevelopment.aspx

So there is confidence in its future. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought a school had recently moved there too. Plus the developments you mention Lyn all sounds pretty active. If so, it's up to the community (whether residents, local businesses, the Council) to make sure it happens. In theory it should be a vibrant place with the rich history it has. But these things take time to come to full fruition. Viv.


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Oh wow .. excellent news, this was my family's local (they lived in Camden Drive and Pope Street) and I remember going in one Saturday afternoon for a shandy, just to see what it was like. Since then, it's been sad to see it so neglected.
I believe the original plan was to keep the facade and turn it into a wine bar with apartments behind, looks like they're reverting (more or less) to this plan now. I was also in the Red lion in Warstone Lane one evening last November and it was packed to the rafters. A lot of the pubs/restaurants in that area are now quite trendy and there's been an awful lot of new apartments been built/converted. Look at the success of the Red Lion, Rose Villa, etc...and especially, as Lyn says, the St Pauls Square area. They can't all survive on lunchtime trade so I guess there's still money to be made and success to be had.
Good food, atmosphere and decent prices will soon bring the punters in and word will spread.
 
yes viv i am quietly confident that this venture will do ok...not heard about a school being opened in the area but maybe someone else may have some info on that...

hi ya charlie i thought you would be pleased...in fact i can see you being one of the first customers banging down the door to get in and have look around lol i am pretty sure the fascade will pretty much as it is now fingers crossed...ps if back up is required when you do visit please do not hesitate to contact me lol lol

lyn
 
Be good to see some old pics of the place if anyone has any too. Not necessarily in its derelict state but in its heyday. Thanks. Viv.


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george and dragon.jpgthanks for the link about the school viv..oh and me and charlie always leave a pub as we find it...well mostly anyway lol

there should be one or two photos of it on the forum but under other threads...i do have this one to hand..in your mail article it shows a pic of the pubs name set in stone and you can see it in this pic on the carver st side of the pub just above the door...
 
It's what I'd call a very handsome pub. Thanks for the photo Lyn. Has some lovely features. Below is its listing; made Grade 2 as far back as 1982. It's historic value is in the way it's been altered/adapted over a span of 100 years. Part is believed to date back to 1820 with the last changes made in 1922. There's not much of particular interest in the interior, but it's external evolution over time has doubtless saved it from demolition. Viv.

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And this is an assessment from an epaper giving a bit more detail.

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That's an interesting read Lyn. I'd say the area's vastly improved then since 2007. Just had a stroll on Streetview and there seems to be lots of activity and some stunning examples of Georgian architecture (and not delapidated either). I'm hoping that the Jewellery Quarter is doing its bit to promote itself. Surely it has since 2007? If not they're missing a golden opportunity - no pun intended.

The plans for the G & D sound appropriate to me too. Residential upstairs (as it would have been as a pub) and restaurant downstairs. The different levels of the buildings would add interest, the windows and external architecture more interest and maybe the JQ could even promote the best of its history e.g the Dayus connection, the pub as part of the workshop community etc etc. Always keen to see the positives! Viv.


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thanks for the info viv...it says no significant changes to the exterior of the building so lets hope thats true...will keep a watch on this one now as things are moving...

lyn
 
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Thanks for all the additional info, Lyn and Viv.
Oh ... don't worry about the pub when Lyn and I visit... we treat all pubs with total reverence don't we Lyn? Much like churchgoers treat St. Pauls.
 
Thanks for all the additional info, Lyn and Viv.
Oh ... don't worry about the pub when Lyn and I visit... we treat all pubs with total reverence don't we Lyn? Much like churchgoers treat St. Pauls.


oh we do we do charlie....she says crossed fingers behind back lol...
 
They used to have an all male disco on a Friday night - no women as they were too frightened to go in. This was in the 90s.
 
Well of course it would once have been a male domain Carolina!

The English Heritage listing tells us:
The Pope Street corner probably dates back to 1820s
The Albion street front was added in1860/70
The Carver Street single storey was built in 1922

Been looking at the architecture to see if I can see any hints of the earliest pub history (pre1860/70) but it's difficult to work out. The Corporation and General Trades Directory of 1861 lists the landlord as Matthew Bower at 10 Albion Street. But the English Heritage listing gives the address as 12 and 13 Albion Street. So would the original 1820s tavern have actually been on the corner of Pope and Albion Streets or would it have been where Pope Street is now? When was this street cut? Or is it a simply a matter of street number changes?

Looking closely again at the Pope Street corner the windows do look slightly different - smaller - to those along the facade on the Albion Street stretch towards Carver Street, but that's all I can see. I'm interested to know if any of the corner of Pope St/Albion St shows any signs of the original 1820s tavern? Maybe someone can tell from the brickwork? Questions, questions.

A couple of pics of the Pope Street corner from Streetview - but not too clear as there's so much scaffolding. Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalkHD1411720343.705299.jpg
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as you say viv very difficult to really see much due to all the scaff..need to get a closer look to see if there are any signs of the pope st end being georgian...
 
My family (both sides) were living in back to backs in Pope Street in 1901, and houses then looked as though they'd been built many years before.
 
Thanks Charlie. Just found a ref too to Pope Street being there in 1841, so the street was there well before the G&D was re-developed in the 1860s/70s. Assuming the G& D has always been on the current site, there may be brickwork that can be dated. It would also be nice to find a ref to the pub pre-1840s. Viv.


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Yes Carolina plus info from the named streets on the Birmingham gov site. But since the article you and Lyn attached was written - 7 years ago - it's possible more of the brickwork has been exposed. It's in such a bad way, that more info might come to light before it's covered up again. Also found this photo; a view looking across to Pope Street. Looks turn of the century. The upper windows on the Pope Street/Albion Street corner of the building are definitely plainer, no more than early Victorian I'd say, if not earlier. And there seems to be two doorways very close together, I thought the corner doorway might be the original. All guesswork, but we might have a chance here to firmly establish if any of the 1820s building exists. Viv.

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Photos of mime from late December 2012









Unrelated, but I found another George and the Dragon in Ashbourne, Derbyshire earlier this month!

 
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