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Finding Information

MWS said:
I'm getting a little confused now.

The Elizabeth Morgan baptised Kenilworth, daughter of John (a Carpenter) & Hannah married a John Albert Smallman - mentioned in post #9 and definitely ruled out by Janice.

The Elizabeth Ann Morgan who married a Charles Smith is never listed with a birthplace of Kenilworth.

Which of their children is your ancestor?
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catmum said:
Elizabeth Ann Morgan married Charles Smith 4 June 1854, St. Philips, Birmingham
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And they had 2 surviving children - John Charles b1860 who married an Alice Drew and Alice Lavinia b1862 who possibly married twice (bigamously?) to Henry Tomlinson & Isaac Wadman.
 
catmum said:
It gets confusing because I may have found two Charles Smith, one a horse collar worker and the other a glass worker, of course he could have changed jobs or it might be a different person.
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Right I think I may have made some sense of things.

Firstly I think you are interested in Emma Jane Smith who married a Samuel Price, them being the parents of William Kirby Price. If this is incorrect then ignore everything else.

Why do you think that Emma's mother was an Elizabeth Ann Morgan? I can see a number of trees on Ancestry that appear to list her as Emma's mother but I would say they are all wrong.

I think Emma Jane Smith birth reg. Mar 1866 was the daughter of Charles Smith and Elizabeth Manners.

Their marriage was reg. Dec 1853 Kings Norton. Elizabeth's birthplace is consistently listed as Bham and in 1881 they are living in Lower Hospital St and Charles is listed as a Glass Toy manufacturer. In 1871 he is a Glass Worker (which you mention) though in 1861 he is a Porter.

Their marriage record (as Manner) is on Ancestry and I'm not certain but it appears that their is no father listed for her so she may have been illegitimate.
 
There is a baptism for an Elizabeth Manners, parents William & Jane. If this is her not sure why her father's not listed on the marriage.

Elizabeth is a widow with Samuel and Emma in 1891.
 
Charles and family are living in Moland St in 1841. Names of some his siblings share the same name as some of his children.

His father's birthplace is listed as Warwickshire but in 1851 it is Monmouthshire. And as it is in 1861 & 1871 it would appear it is.
 
MWS said:
Right I think I may have made some sense of things.

Firstly I think you are interested in Emma Jane Smith who married a Samuel Price, them being the parents of William Kirby Price. If this is incorrect then ignore everything else.

Why do you think that Emma's mother was an Elizabeth Ann Morgan? I can see a number of trees on Ancestry that appear to list her as Emma's mother but I would say they are all wrong.

I think Emma Jane Smith birth reg. Mar 1866 was the daughter of Charles Smith and Elizabeth Manners.

Their marriage was reg. Dec 1853 Kings Norton. Elizabeth's birthplace is consistently listed as Bham and in 1881 they are living in Lower Hospital St and Charles is listed as a Glass Toy manufacturer. In 1871 he is a Glass Worker (which you mention) though in 1861 he is a Porter.

Their marriage record (as Manner) is on Ancestry and I'm not certain but it appears that their is no father listed for her so she may have been illegitimate.
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I have DNA matches to Elizabeth Ann Morgan, she is the wife of Charles Smith and mother of Emma Smith who Married Samuel Price. I'm just trying to find the correct Charles Smith but there are a lot of them out there. There is no Elizabeth Manners in my DNA matches. In the 1871 census I think that may be the wrong Charles.
 
Astoness said:
yes the site is having problems ..could you add your comments on this thread please..we have alerted warren who deals with anything technical

pjmburns

Post in thread 'Donations'

Agree Lyn. Even when I am on the Forum I have to wait for anything to load, or paste in - much slower than usual.
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Ah thanks, couldn't get online until my shiny new computer was set up, took ages and we spent most of the family visit sorting out. Fingers crossed we can carry on, I've missed a lot of the comments.
 
catmum said:
I have DNA matches to Elizabeth Ann Morgan, she is the wife of Charles Smith and mother of Emma Smith who Married Samuel Price. I'm just trying to find the correct Charles Smith but there are a lot of them out there. There is no Elizabeth Manners in my DNA matches. In the 1871 census I think that may be the wrong Charles.
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There are two Elizabeth Morgans whom married a Charles Smith. Neither had a daughter called Emma.

Do you have the marriage certificate of Samuel Price and Emma Smith?

You can have no dna match to Elizabeth Morgan only her descendants. If your dna match has incorrectly listed their ancestor as Elizabeth Morgan - as so many trees on Ancestry appear to have done - then they could be leading you on a wild goose chase.

DNA is great but only in conjunction with research.
 
MWS said:
There are two Elizabeth Morgans whom married a Charles Smith. Neither had a daughter called Emma.

Do you have the marriage certificate of Samuel Price and Emma Smith?

You can have no dna match to Elizabeth Morgan only her descendants. If your dna match has incorrectly listed their ancestor as Elizabeth Morgan - as so many trees on Ancestry appear to have done - then they could be leading you on a wild goose chase.

DNA is great but only in conjunction with research.
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Marriage, 4 June 1854, St. Philip, Birmingham, father, John Morgan, sadler, in the presence of Richard Smith and Frances Smith. Emma (J) born about 1866. I believe someone on this site found those details a few days ago. I appreciate DNA cannot be obtained from ancestors, you just need to follow the trail. There doesn't appear to be a marriage certificate for Samuel and Emma, just a date on the marriage index.
 
catmum said:
Marriage, 4 June 1854, St. Philip, Birmingham, father, John Morgan, sadler, in the presence of Richard Smith and Frances Smith. Emma (J) born about 1866. I believe someone on this site found those details a few days ago. I appreciate DNA cannot be obtained from ancestors, you just need to follow the trail. There doesn't appear to be a marriage certificate for Samuel and Emma, just a date on the marriage index.
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I'm sorry if I appear to be bludgeoning things a little but you appear to be jumping to conclusions based on other people's faulty research.

For certain you know that your ancestor was Emma Smith who married Samuel Price. From that point onwards you seem to be looking at other people's trees and trying to make it fit. However because their info is wrong you can't.

The marriage you mention between Charles Smith & Elizabeth Morgan (which Janice found from info you provided) is correct but you haven't confirmed the connection between Emma and that Charles & Elizabeth - again because there isn't one.

I don't like to advise people to spend money on certificates but in this instance it is probably the only way forward. So whilst their marriage record isn't online you can purchase their marriage certificate from the GRO. I suspect that this will confirm that Emma's father was Charles Smith the Glass Worker but even it doesn't the info it provides will help you make that next step back.

Below is the link to the GRO, where you can order it online (£12.50). You have to register but the ordering process is straightforward...

 
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I repeat what I said earlier.

There is NO Emma Smith born in the Birmingham or Aston reg districts between 1859 and 1867 with mmn Morgan
but there is an Emma (J) Smith born in 1866 with mmn Manners
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MWS said:
I'm sorry if I appear to be bludgeoning things a little but you appear to be jumping to conclusions based on other people's faulty research.

For certain you know that your ancestor was Emma Smith who married Samuel Price. From that point onwards you seem to be looking at other people's trees and trying to make it fit. However because their info is wrong you can't.

The marriage you mention between Charles Smith & Elizabeth Morgan (which Janice found from info you provided) is correct but you haven't confirmed the connection between Emma and that Charles & Elizabeth - again because there isn't one.

I don't like to advise people to spend money on certificates but in this instance it is probably the only way forward. So whilst their marriage record isn't online you can purchase their marriage certificate from the GRO. I suspect that this will confirm that Emma's father was Charles Smith the Glass Worker but even it doesn't the info it provides will help you make that next step back.

Below is the link to the GRO, where you can order it online (£12.50). You have to register but the ordering process is straightforward...

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MWS, I'm not relying on other peoples research, I'm doing my own and looking at other trees to see if they have other pertinent info that I haven't seen. If I believed other trees I might be able to tell you about my gran, she never left Brum but had about thirty children on different continents, sometimes two or three born in the same year, countless husbands, and my poor uncle who died on board his ship during the war was listed as being in the South Pacific or some unknown place if you believed the rest of this American persons tree. My uncle is actually honoured at Portsmouth. I'm having problems logging into my usual sites at the moment, new computer, but I'm trying to keep on top of it all.
 
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