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FAIR COP AND ROBBER?

Welshnwobbly

Welshnwobbly

proper brummie kid
My ancestor Joseph Gibbs appears to have been examined to join Midlands police in 1840 and later has two convictions for larceny at criminal court. I cannot tell if the certificate (attached) meant that he definitely joined the cops or was just passed fit. I note that he is described as "single" in it but I have him as marrying Maria Freeth on 29 November 1836 at St Phillips Cathedral. His address is the same, Langley Street, Aston, and his occupation is a "plater".
Ancestry records that a 23-year-old man called Joseph Gibbs was passed fit for the police in January 1840 in the West Midlands England Police Files and Ledgers (which I assume have recently been digitised by Birmingham library archives).
It records that a man called Joseph Gibbs, aged 28, was then imprisoned at the county assizes court for four days on 25 March, 1846, having admitted "larceny" (theft) and then Joseph Gibbs, aged 30, was then imprisoned at Birmingham Boro Sessions for six months for "larceny by servant" (stealing from employer) on August 2, 1847.
I am, naturally, wondering if this is definitely the same man?
I also wonder which prison he would have been sent to and wonder if life there would have been particularly difficult if he had, indeed, been a police constable in the city?
Where could I get a record of proceedings at court on those two days and further detail about the police certificate and whether or not he was a bona-fide constable?
 

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If you look at the next sheet it says he resigned 21 Apr 1840.

And as he always seems your Joseph always seems to be listed as a plater/labourer then I would think they were 2 different people.
 
on his examination papers it gives the address of lawley st not langley st which is most likely just a typo on your part...however as you say you have him marrying in 1836 but on his papers dated 1840 he states not married hopefully some of our members can help to determine if they are the same man...
 
However, having said he was always listed as a plater/labourer, on the baptism of his daughter Emma in 1845 he is listed as a servant.
 
Many thanks for this.
I was very surprised to find a West Midlands Police entry certificate at all.
I have no knowledge of any other areas where this has been done. Certainly not here. I presume that the fourth floor at the library obtained these and digitised them themselves in that Wolfson Room. How did they get the documents?
I did NOT notice that that J Gibbs resigned in 1840. I wonder why and if, indeed, it was resignation as cops very often resign when they have no choice (if you get my drift?)? That seems to indicate that his life on the beat was very short.
I am inclined to contact the West Midlands Police Museum to try to get more detail and will speak to staff at the Wolfson?
 
MWS said:
If you look at the next sheet it says he resigned 21 Apr 1840.

And as he always seems your Joseph always seems to be listed as a plater/labourer then I would think they were 2 different people.
Click to expand...
The occupation given on the form is "plater".
 
Difficult to be totally certain but I think the conclusion was that he is your relative.
 
Welshnwobbly said:
Hi,
Thanks very much for this.
Can I ask where you got this added information about this Joseph Gibbs's disciplinary record in West Midlands police from?
Also, can I now be certain that this Joseph Gibbs was NOT my relative?
Click to expand...
It came up on Ancestry when I did a search for his name.
 
Thank you for these two.
My feeling was that those three disciplinary matters were slight and not very troubling.
He wasn't taking back-handers or engaging in some of the behaviour some cops engage in today and none of that would have been terribly controversial or warranted his dismissal.
Did he then voluntarily resign from the police or was he forced to?
What was the pay and conditions for men in the police then and was there a pension?
What kind of danger would he have been in on a daily basis on the beat with the Peaky Blinders active?
The contribution from Master Brummie seems key.
The order in which Ancestry placed the evidence of him as a police officer specifically with other evidence of his criminal convictions (they all come together when you put his name in) seems, to me, to suggest that somebody, somewhere (either at Brum Library, Ancestry or both) thought that he was one and the same person and concluded that it was justifiable to accept that he was. That may be an educated and informed guess?
 
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