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Drovers' Arms - Moat Lane

  • Thread starter Thread starter www.midlandspubs.co.uk
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thanks viv...so what date do you think it is...mike thinks its 1881 but as i said michells and butlers were not founded until 1898 and they bought the drovers so the photo must have been taken after that date...

lyn
 
Think the pub signage might give us a clue to more a precise date Lyn. This (allegedly) 1902 image shows 'Mitchell & Co' not Mitchell's & Butlers. Wondering if the signage in post #23 reads Mitchell's 'ales & stouts' - or similar - and not Mitchell's and Butlers (and therefore not using the ampersand '&').

Therefore, when did Mitchell & Co become M&B ? Viv.

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ahh viv so the letter A stands for ales not and..cant help with dates all i know is michells and bultlers started in 1898
 
Astoness said:
ahh viv so the letter A stands for ales not and..cant help with dates all i know is michells and bultlers started in 1898
Click to expand...

Not 100% sure Lyn as to whether the 'A' stands for 'Ales' but would have thought an ampersand would have most probably been used if it was Mitchell's & Butlers on the sign.

The question we might ask is, did any pubs at this time use 'Mitchell's and Butlers" in their signage ? Viv.
 
The Mitchell and the Butler breweries merged in 1898 - see extract below. And a couple of pub signs showing the ampersand in use post-merger. As the image in post #28 doesn't use an ampersand in the pub sign, the image is most probably pre-1898. Viv.

image.jpeg
Information extracted from here - a good site.

https://www.breweryhistory.com/Defunct/WM_Birmingham.htm
 

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The Drovers Arms..png
I don't suppose it will help with this discussion but this is a slightly better image.
 
Although I believe the photo is pre 1901, I can find no evidence of that. The tarpaulin business of Alfred Woodward and the tearoom of Read were there for both dates. Briggs (History of Birmingham) states the vegetable market was extended in 1897 and 1903.
I did however spot a glaring error in what one would hope would be an authoritative source (https://theironroom.wordpress.com/2016/11/17/the-markets-of-birmingham/), which , to me, would indicate that the library, having sacked many of those who know what they are talking about, is employing , for writing its blog, PR men (or women) whose only attribute is a diploma in golf studies or media studies (or something equally useless) from the East Hackney technical college, (or somewhere similar ).
Note the caption:
from birm library website.jpg
 
I have noticed some inaccuracies in a few of the so called historical blogs. This is mainly, as I believe it to be, by people who do not live, or have lived, in the area they write of and in particular appear to succumb to suppositions made - and worst of all not corrected - on social media. With the plethora of universities, all competing for the cash that comes with the students and each requiring a thesis to be written before graduation, there seems to be some rather hit and miss write ups. I have to be honest I do not rely on them especially as many are superficial rather than an in depth study.
 
I agree in general Alan, but in this case the site is headed "Archives and Collections, Library of Birmingham and below that " Birmingham City Council" while the home page talks about the Library as "we". If the blog is from the library then it is a truly disgusting error
 
not wishing to go too off topic but i think we all know that due to the massive cut backs of qualified libary staff it is now mainly volunteers that run it and so bad is it that they were even asking for people to donate books:mad: maybe it would have been best to think about this before spending £200 million pound building the library..
 
Mike you know as well as me, that this sort of error is commonplace and it seems to more often than not come from those in authoritative positions who should know better.
 
I have said before that a number of years ago I purchased a few items from a book shop I Hay On Wye and the shopkeeper
virtually gave me a cardboard box full of papers, some are obviously book pages because they are numbered, my picture of The Drovers 1902 was one of those and I obtained it about 15 years ago. Others are just pictures with no number or any writing at all. I posted this so you would know that I have had the picture with the date 1902 on it for at least 15 years.
 
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