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Drovers' Arms - Moat Lane

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Did any members of the forum use this place towards the end of its life?

Drovers's Arms - Moat Lane [pic attached]



This pub is, more often than not, associated with Moat Lane and Smithfield Street but it did have Bradford Street house numbers 345-6 as well as being No.9 Moat Lane.

The Drovers' Arms was close to the site of the Manor House of Birmingham. Moat Lane and Moat Row serves to remind that a ditch protected this ancient seat. This was fed by some of Digbeth's natural springs and the watercourse flowed into the Rea via the manorial mill from which Mill Lane takes its name. Originally built to grind corn, the mill later produced sword blades for the Parliamentary forces during the English Civil War. However, this led to its destruction by Prince Rupert's forces when they attacked the town in 1643. It was rebuilt and later converted to a slitting mill by Sampson Lloyd II, a descendent of a Quaker family from Leominster whose son would later co-found the famous Lloyds Bank in Birmingham.

The Drovers's Arms was named after the men who brought livestock to the nearby markets and slaughter houses. These were hard drinking, tough characters that most people tended to avoid so it would be a fair guess that very few Brummies wandered into the Drovers' Arms and shouted "sheep shaggers" at the blokes propping up the counter.

The photograph was taken around 1902; the pub can be seen behind the rag market held where Smithfield Street meets Moat Row. The Upton family kept the Drovers' Arms in the early-mid 19th century. Thomas Upton was the licensee in the 1840's and, following his death, was succeeded by Tamworth-born wife Sophia. She was helped by her children; Thomas, Sophia, Elizabeth and Louisa all worked as waiters. Joseph, another son, was a hay dealer.

Sophia's daughter Louisa married Devon-born former butcher and railway detective Henry Mitchell who later took over the licence of the Drovers' Arms. The couple later kept the Fighting Cocks in Moseley.

In the mid-late 19th century the Drovers' Arms was owned by the maltster George James. He operated the maltings located next to the King William IV further up Bradford Street. He was the son of George James, also a maltster who once traded as a beer retailer in Heath Mill Lane after moving from Upper Trinity Street.

George James sold the Drovers' Arms to Mitchell's and Butler's and moved with his wife Emma to Stonehurst on the Coventry Road at Yardley, close to the New Inn.

In 1901 the Drovers' Arms value was considerable and the Cape Hill brewery were hammered £27.15s.4d. for the annual rates plus a further 3s.6d. for an advertising station.

As a Bass house, the Drovers' Arms remained a popular watering hole in the markets area until 1973 when it was closed in order to redevelop this part of Birmingham. Harry Reeder was the last licensee.

Cheers
Kieron www.midlandspubs.co.uk
 

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There were two water mills there. One was in a forecourt just ouside the manor moat in Upper Mill Lane. This was fed from the moat overflow and the water then ran down to the pool for the second mill in Mill Lane which is the one you mention I think. There has been quite a bit written on here about 'the mills of birmingham' which you might find of interest if you have not already read it.
 
My God, I remember The Drovers Arms, and I'll be surprised if other subscribers to the Dan Pawson and his Artesian Hall Stompers thread don't respond. The Drovers was a grotty little pub in the late 1960's, but had trad jazz every Friday and, I think, folk on Sundays. Unbelievably, my very first date with my dear wife was in 1969 and I took her to The Drovers to hear Dan and the band. It was a pretty rought place, too, and the gaffer (a big gaunt-looking Irishman) kept a leg of a bar-stool handy to deal with any nonsense in the bar. Yet he was a lovely bloke, and liked jazz, too. Whether he was Harry Reeder referred to by Kieron I know not. The music was in the upstairs meeting-room, access via an incredibly steep and narrow staircase, the downfall (literally) of many a punter who'd had a drop too much.

Nearby was The Birmingham Arms, another ancient hostelry noted for jazz, and I guess that it disappeared about the same time as The Drovers.

Happy Daze,

Big Gee
 
What a fantastic message - thanks Big Gee. You can almost smell the place and hear the music. Great stuff.
Kind regards
Kieron
 
What a fantastic message - thanks Big Gee. You can almost smell the place and hear the music. Great stuff.
Kind regards
Kieron

Hi Kieron,

Thanks for your kind comments! Sadly, The Drovers Arms and its like are no more - they were just grubby old places where a bloke could have a drink and a smoke and a natter with his mates (and a punch-up too, maybe...), and if there was a band on listen to the jazz. Part of a simpler world that's disappeared during my life-time.

Regards,

Big Gee
 
A more recent picture of the Drovers Arms (early 1970s). Thought i'd posted it earlier today, but must have pressed the wrong button . That's two errors today and i haven't had a drop to drink
mike

31__The_Drovers_Arms2C_Bradford_StB~0.jpg
 
Hear hear. Excellent photograph - I hadn't seen a nice image of this place. Thanks very much for posting it on the forum.
Kind regards
Kieron
 
Hi All
I well remember playing with Dan at the Drovers. It became our regular gig either before or after the nearby Birmingham Arms indicating that one was closed before the other. We only generally moved when our regular haunt was up for demolition. Richard mentions the Warwick Castle which was probably second in line of succession; we started our regular weekly gigs at the Firebird Cafe in Carrs Lane, a cellar bar now identified only by a patch of grass.
Hi Kieron. Fancy meeting you on the AHS forum; the pubs link I shouldn't wonder. You may know me as chairman of Dudley CAMRA branch; I believe you're more associated with Stourbridge. We must meet up for a drink at the Waggon sometime.
It was great to see photos of the Drovers. I recently bought a book on Birmingham pubs which contains a fine photo of the Old Stone Cross, Dale End, another of our gig joints and of the Salutation, Snow Hill. Great to see the mystery is still unravelling.
Best wishes
Stan
 
To help remind you, here is the Birmingham Arms at the same time as the Drovers Arms.
Mike

34A__Birmingham_Arms.jpg
 
Hi Stan
Thanks for your memories of playing at the Drovers. Did you play upstairs at the Waggon and Horses in Adderley Street - I started a thread on this.

I'll come and say hello to you at the Dudley Winter Ales festival.

Kind regards
Kieron





Hi All
I well remember playing with Dan at the Drovers. It became our regular gig either before or after the nearby Birmingham Arms indicating that one was closed before the other. We only generally moved when our regular haunt was up for demolition. Richard mentions the Warwick Castle which was probably second in line of succession; we started our regular weekly gigs at the Firebird Cafe in Carrs Lane, a cellar bar now identified only by a patch of grass.
Hi Kieron. Fancy meeting you on the AHS forum; the pubs link I shouldn't wonder. You may know me as chairman of Dudley CAMRA branch; I believe you're more associated with Stourbridge. We must meet up for a drink at the Waggon sometime.
It was great to see photos of the Drovers. I recently bought a book on Birmingham pubs which contains a fine photo of the Old Stone Cross, Dale End, another of our gig joints and of the Salutation, Snow Hill. Great to see the mystery is still unravelling.
Best wishes
Stan
 
I've been looking for information and a photo of the Old Stone Cross in Dale End - what was the book on pubs called Stan ? or is there any chance of a scan of the picture ?
Regards
Ian.
 
Hi Ian

The book is called "Central Birmingham Pubs", author Joe McKenna. ISBN No. 0-7524-3873-5. It is part of a series called "Images of England" published by Tempus. www. tempus-publishing.com. I picked it up in "The Works" reduced to £9.99 from £12.99. It features pubs that are generally within the Inner Ring Road and there is at least one other pub in the Birmingham series. The Old Stone Cross picture is on page 40 and there is a write-up on page 37. It is quite a tightly bound book so a scan would be difficult and probably infringe the copyright.

Hope you can find it

Stan
 
Hi Big Gee,
Spud here yes I've just found this thread and was about to "annouce" the fact that I had played at The Drovers Arms.....but noticed Stan Stephens had beaten me to It !
Never mind great photos to stir the memories !
 
An interesting connection between Drovers and Lloyds:
David Jones, a Welsh droverset up the Black Ox Bank in 1799 in the Black Ox Pub in Llandovery. The deposits were kept in the coal scuttle behind the bar. The notes depicted the Welsh Black breed of cattle as the motif.
Llandovery stood at the junction of three droving routes from Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire and Cardiganshire to London. The Black Ox Bank and was incorporated into Lloyds Bank in 1909
 
In the 1911 Census my Great Grand-aunt was already married to Arthur Frederick Green who ran the Drovers' Arms. Their, then 10 year old son, also called Arthur Frederick later took over the 'reins' (sorry..) until his death in 1965. As I discovered this family only very recently, I never knew the pub personally so it is great to have seen Mike's photo and read Keiron's history. (Any chance, Keiron of buying a larger version of that amazing thumbnail?).
 
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Hi John
Thanks for your valued information. I'm sorry but I do not have the rights to that photograph - you will be able to obtain a copy in Birmingham Central Library. I obtained permission to use their photos on my website but that's as far as my official arrangement goes.

Kind regards
Kieron
 
To help remind you, here is the Birmingham Arms at the same time as the Drovers Arms.
Mike

Can anyone tell me the correct address of the Birmingham Arms?

Would it be: Birmingham Arms, Bradford Street, Birmingham?

or

Birmingham Arms, Moat Row, Birmingham?:cool:

I don't need the full address - just which is right of the above - to caption a photograph I am using in the second Dan Pawson Tribute CD out soon.

Lord Richard
 
for the record, incidently, my great aunt Evelyn lived in the pub, the Drover's Arms, with her husband, Alfred Green, this mean anything to anyone.
Matahari
 
image.jpeg
An earlier photo of the Drovers Arms. Sorry no date but think it must be late 1800s. Viv.
 
The Drovers Arms was by the Horse Market in moat. Row 20 July 1901
Which was a meeting place for Horse sellers and cattle
With steam tram trailers, Indicatates that a centuries old way of life,
Reflected in the pub name in changing rapidly,
Just two days later this area was enclosed as an extent ion of the covered vegetable market.
The building was converted eighteenth century house while the road way was named
After Peter. de. Bermingham,s. Twelfth,s century. Moated Manor House
 
Cattle and pig market buildings. Birmingham. 1902..jpg
I posted this a couple of years ago and I really don't know if it was lost or not. The text says it was the cattle and pig market. 1902
 
Stitcher
My version of the last photo gives a date of 1881, which I think is more likely to be correct, as a new meat market was built in 1897
 
mike im not so sure..post 2 also dates it as 1902..the drovers is showing it to be a michells and bulters pub but they were not established until 1898

i have also got that photo..will try and locate it to see what it says..i am also wondering if the cattle and pig market which would have sold live stock is the same as the meat market ..i thought the meat market only sold meat ready for consumption but i am a bit unclear on that..:rolleyes:
 
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