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Does anyone know which pub this was?
- Thread starter Mitsy
- Start date
brummy-lad
master brummie
could be it john as i did wonder if it was actually a pub bar very long lots of staff mainly ladies...bit more research needed yet thanks
lyn
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The only thing I've turned up so far is that Dullers were caterers, in this case, to Bingley Hall. They served Butlers ale of Wolverhampton.
Just an observation. When I first looked at the photo, I did think it was an unusual style of bar, as are the high-level windows. The large banner across the back of the bar looks like it's promotional, so could it have been a (temporary ?) bar at some event such as the one detailed in below newspaper cutting ? They call themselves " Refreshment Contractors" and "Official Caterers to Bingley Hall". Was this a regular contract with Bingley Hall ? Did they have semi-permanent premises at the Hall ?
Source; British Newspaper Archive
Just an observation. When I first looked at the photo, I did think it was an unusual style of bar, as are the high-level windows. The large banner across the back of the bar looks like it's promotional, so could it have been a (temporary ?) bar at some event such as the one detailed in below newspaper cutting ? They call themselves " Refreshment Contractors" and "Official Caterers to Bingley Hall". Was this a regular contract with Bingley Hall ? Did they have semi-permanent premises at the Hall ?
Source; British Newspaper Archive
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And a lot of glasses, bottles and decanters lined up on the bar, unlike a regular bar. Almost like they're waiting for a rush of customers all at one time. Or a publicity photo ?
It's quite likely the banner behind the bar reads "Official Caterers to B(ingley Hall?)
I can see sausage rolls on the counter, presumably made with the 'famed' sausages made somewhere in Birmingham, according to the container they're sitting on. I also thought the statue at each end of the bar backdrop might be significant, could it be linked to the (event) bar's name, props perhaps? (Possibly Grecian ?)
What an interesting scenario this is ! Thanks Mitsy.
It's quite likely the banner behind the bar reads "Official Caterers to B(ingley Hall?)
I can see sausage rolls on the counter, presumably made with the 'famed' sausages made somewhere in Birmingham, according to the container they're sitting on. I also thought the statue at each end of the bar backdrop might be significant, could it be linked to the (event) bar's name, props perhaps? (Possibly Grecian ?)
What an interesting scenario this is ! Thanks Mitsy.
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pjmburns
master brummie
Agree we could do with an approximate date from Mitsy.
yes a date would be good jan also if mitsy could tell us her aunts full name (ie was her name maggie or was that short for margaret ) and age when the photo was taken as we may be able to find her on a census or electoral roll to see where she was living
lyn
Weighing up a few points.
In the original photo, there was a small area next to the window (possibly a Snug) sectioned off. Difficult to detect on the B&W photo, but there's a light above it, near the window. Did the OC's used to have a Snug-type area in that position ?
I notice the extremely large windows in the B&W photo have small bars, as does the Oc's/Albion Hotel.
At the time of the B&W photo, the OCs would have been named the Albion Commercial Hotel (I think until the 1940s). There were large gatherings and dinners held there in the 1920s. Doesn't, however, explain the marble statues, and I doubt pubs put on themed events in the 1920s (a guesstimate for the date based on clothing, hairstyles, guvnors brown derby ...).
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It used to have a darts board there in the 70s. It may well have been sectioned off before that, I also remember the window was perhaps lower (as in the original picture) back then. It was just a first thought though.
brummy-lad
master brummie
A few distinctive features of the photograph.
Con Amore Cigarette advert circa 1916 ?
White figurine - could this be related to the name of the place ?
Adverts for Bass and Bovril (mentioned by Janice)
Sign saying 'scotch whisky to be had at all bars', implying it was a huge establishment.
Distinctive panelling at the front of the bar.
A venue of the scale of Bingley Hall would be a serious contender.
Con Amore Cigarette advert circa 1916 ?
White figurine - could this be related to the name of the place ?
Adverts for Bass and Bovril (mentioned by Janice)
Sign saying 'scotch whisky to be had at all bars', implying it was a huge establishment.
Distinctive panelling at the front of the bar.
A venue of the scale of Bingley Hall would be a serious contender.
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The Con Amore cigarettes featured the crests of several regiments. There are flags in different positions in the bar (some reflected in the mirror behind the bar). So, could this have been a bar frequented by former WW1 solders ? That would link to the Albion, later renamed as the Old Contemptibles (1953). Great pub, looks like good beer too.
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I've grabbed a few current day screenshots to see if anything jumps out. Might be difficult due to modern renovations. What wonderful murals ! They're relatively modern I believe.
One question that could put this suggestion to bed is, has the bar been replaced since 1920ish ?
One question that could put this suggestion to bed is, has the bar been replaced since 1920ish ?
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i guess the bar could have been replaced viv but the windown in the original photo look far to high up..anything is possible but nothing conclusive at the min...hoping mitsy will come back to see if she can answer our questions that may or may not help us
lyn
lyn
I would hope not. I can't say for sure though and if they did renew it, I would guess they would want it to look as near to the same as was possible. A lot of work was done on the pub (removing partitions between what had been the lounge and the bar for example), around 30-odd years ago, I think.
john i would love to know if the photo was taken a pub which it may well have been it could even be the old comtempibles..one thing did strike me and that was the wallpaper..typical of the times and if this was a promotion stunt at somewhere like bingley hall would they have gone to so much trouble wallpapering it
lyn
Could be pure coincidence, but the Albion was previously called The Adelphi Wine Vaults. Adelphi is Greek, meaning brothers. As I say, possibly only a coincidence with there being (Greek?) statues on the bar in the B&W photo.
See post #33 here for further info
See post #33 here for further info
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Well it's certainly got us thinking and exploring different theories. I don't think I've seen anything anywhere yet about Duller being a publican. The fact they were 'contractors' suggests they serviced events. So the banner could have been put up at any event, at an exhibition hall like Bingley Hall, a pub event, a park or recreation ground event like Aston Grounds for example. It certainly looks promotional.
The Bovril signs do seem to suggest it's catering at an outdoor event or cold place, such as Janice says, possibly a football ground, or even a park ground or en exhibition hall.
The Bovril signs do seem to suggest it's catering at an outdoor event or cold place, such as Janice says, possibly a football ground, or even a park ground or en exhibition hall.
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brummy-lad
master brummie
Darkening the image a little it does say 'Official Caterers to B...............', as mentioned in post#6
This plus the sign 'scotch whisky to be had at all bars' suggests Bingley Hall but not definitive of course.
I've compared the windows with several on photographs of Bingley Hall it seemed as though the windows were arched at the top, there may be a hint of a curve on the original photograph but the image is distorted in that corner.
This plus the sign 'scotch whisky to be had at all bars' suggests Bingley Hall but not definitive of course.
I've compared the windows with several on photographs of Bingley Hall it seemed as though the windows were arched at the top, there may be a hint of a curve on the original photograph but the image is distorted in that corner.
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Radiorails
master brummie
As far as The Old Contemptibles is concerned Bovril was sometimes refereed to as 'beef tea' which was similar. My guardian gave it to me especially in cold weather It was always given to some folk when ill. 
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Some more info. John Duller was landlord at the Trees Hotel/Inn (junction of 98/100 Bath Row and Wheeleys Lane - left) in 1901. As well as catering at shows, he catered for soirees and grand race stands.
I doubt the B&W photo was taken at this hotel on the basis the windows are far too different. The advert is interesting in that it makes it clearer the type of events his catering business covered.
There was a George Duller horse racer and trainer. They may be related and why John Duller specifically draws attention to catering for "grand race stands"
A very sad family incident. His son Alexander committed suicide with one of John Dullers domestic servants (who was dismissed). The incident happened when they were staying together in Brighton in 1896.
Trees Hotel c1965, now demolished.
I doubt the B&W photo was taken at this hotel on the basis the windows are far too different. The advert is interesting in that it makes it clearer the type of events his catering business covered.
There was a George Duller horse racer and trainer. They may be related and why John Duller specifically draws attention to catering for "grand race stands"
A very sad family incident. His son Alexander committed suicide with one of John Dullers domestic servants (who was dismissed). The incident happened when they were staying together in Brighton in 1896.
Trees Hotel c1965, now demolished.
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pjmburns
master brummie
This is where it might get complicated. The John A who died in 1926 is the one from the Turks Head (dob on census 1849 and on death 1847).
His probate names another John Alexander Duller coffee house proprieter.
I think Phyllis might be his daughter as there are grandchildren on 1911 census with surname Shakeshaft.
His probate names another John Alexander Duller coffee house proprieter.
I think Phyllis might be his daughter as there are grandchildren on 1911 census with surname Shakeshaft.