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Does Anyone Know Where This Grave Is ?

  • Thread starter maxwell bullivant
  • Start date
Oh then perhaps i was right !!! as we are looking for 1900 !! MAX
 
max...i was thinking that...as you know pubs change the names and this pic is taken 60 years later....

dek..you dont want to see my filing sytem..lol

lyn
 
Max my best friend at school lived in Heanage St to the best of my knowledge all the houses and pubs in that area were Victorian Built i,ve got to say i don,t remember a foundry there but like you say we are talking 1900 i am thinking only from the 50s.Dek
 
Lyn & Max
Here is the record for 1956;
202 Pedley Chas. H. newsagent
here is Henry st ....
here is Windsor st2​

235 Rising Sun P.H. Jas.Thos. Taylor
236 to 242 Hollyoak & Co​


Here is the charles hill entry for 1903;

here is Holt si
​
Derrington & Sons, lime,-. merchants • ; . •:
15 .Hill Charles, beer retailer​
​

16 Wilcox Edwin, grocer , ,
So the Rising Sun. wasn't next to the lime firm.
The 1903 entries around the rising Sun (which isn't named) were:​


217 Bromwich Thomas, lamp ​
and oil dealer
220 Jackson & Son, fender & ashpan makers
232 Pendry Joseph,coal dealer​
​


here is Windsor st​
​
​
​


235 Reynolds Harry, beer ret​

236 Brown Harry, shopkeeper
244 Clayfield Thos. beer retlr
245 Harrison &Cook,malleable
nail makers​
​

​
.here is Adams St​


So could it be the fender and ashpan makers where the accident occurred?
Mike​
​
​
​
 
I am correct Mike then that in 1903 there was no pub in Heneage st ( or in fact in Brum ) called the Rising Sun ?, so is it possible that number 15 beer merchant could have been a pub ?, the mystery continues, love it. Max
 
Since joining this forum a number of my family myths have been proved false as far as facts go. I do not think that they are fantasies more that the original story has become corrupted over time. Bits get added or taken away or altered. After all everyone loves a good story.My mother in law was very good at re-writing history as she miss remembered it.All it takes is that sort re-telling along the line and you have a totally different story. No intention to misrepresent or deceive, its just the fallible memory of us human beings. How useful family diaries would be for this sort of thing. So as well as looking backwards to ancestors perhaps we should try to leave a record for those who will follow us.
As Moulder used to say " The truth is out there somewhere", the problem is where do you look.......Birmingham History Forum of course !
 
Looking again at the photo post #29 the factories are newer buildings than the pub i would say the cars that you can see are late 50s-early 60s the buildings appear to be 40s--50s built it would be nice if it was possible to find out what was on the site pre-war. Dek
 
The J.Henshall map of Birmingham of 1839 shows the Wallsall Lime Works at Heanage Street next to the Premler ( or Premier or Premly ??) Refinery. These are next to the canal.
Across the street are the rear premises of A.Stevens Malthouse which fronts onto Woodcock Street . Other Forges and Mills are marked in the areas nearby. Pubs sadly are not marked.
The factories in the #29 post photo look post war. The pub walls show evidence of repair or extension. Did this location get bombed during the WW2 Blitz ?
 
Max
In the directories the pub name was often not given.In a lot of cases, though I don't think all, this was when it was a beerhouse, which only had a licence to sell beer (& cider ?) , not spirits. The name often, though not always, appeared in later additions, and usually, but not necessarily always, this was the name that it had been known by before. (Sorry for all these usuallys and not always , but there seem to be cases when it can't be definitley stated) So , yes it is very possible that no 15 was a pub in 1903. I did forget to put in one extra extract though (must be old age). It was also listed as a beer retailer in 1908, but by 1912 it was described as a shop (no specific type), so , if it had been a pub earlier, this had changed by 1912.
mike
 
I would have thought that with all those thirst inducing industries in close vicinity some one should have been on a nice little earner if they had a beer license.
 
Arkrite one thing i know we were not shortage of ale houses in that area. regards the bombing the was extensive damage around there Holdbrooks was completely bombed out that was no more than 200yds away houses in Windsor street were also hit. I note that the Lime works were at the top end of Heanage St which would be quite a long way from the Rising Sun which was in the middle.Dek
 
As often happens with us Brummies we have gone well of Thread from my original:D The reference to Heneage St and the furnace deaths was bought in on post #22 , it may be work really for anyone who has access to newspaper reports of this time . Its certainly interesting though, and thanks once again Mike. Max
 
Thanks for the reply dec carr. Nothing can beat local knowledge. I have never knowingly visited the area and probably never will. Still its amazing where you can " virtually visit" on the web.
Cheers......Arkrite...a virtual visitor.
 
I do wish that I had kept a reference to the deaths that I had found in the Birmingham Reference Library at the time. It could be that it was read in Coroner's Reports and that my own mental picture was of a smelting company in Heneage Street close to Windsor Street corner. The photograph is the exact place I was thinking of. I have a 1904 Kelly's and will check with that for the company.
The other " lime" company I remember being by the canal.
I did not realise that it would create the interest that it has, but this is what makes BHWR so Great.
 
1904 Kelly's

Smith Edwin, brass fouudr
here is Holt st
Derrington & Sons, liinj This Should Read As Lime Merchants.
merchants
15 Hill Charles, beer retailer
here is Dartmouth st
16 Wilcox Edwin, grocer
Tabes Limited
KingGeorge,coal merchnt.
(Heneage Street wharf;
47 Dyde Thomas, greengrocer
... hereis Windsor st
48 Kemp Albert, beer retailer
49 Baron Charles, milk deale
 
1904 Kelly's ( I have to type this out )

217 Bromwich Thomas ( Lamp and Oil Dealer )
232 Penry Joseph ( Coal Dealer )
HERE IS WINDSOR STREET
235 Reynolds Harry ( Beer Retailer )
236 Brown Harry ( Shopkeeper )
(The next Street along is Adam Street )

This appears to be telling me that the " Rising Sun " and the Company that smelted Bronze Ingots was not around then.
 
i love these mystery threads...:) with reference to ernies post about a report on deaths found in the library..i am due to go again soon once i receive a clearance letter to view some records so i will make a note and try to find out any info...unless of course someone else can get there before i do...

lyn:)
 
Hello Lyn. I have not been to the Library for at least two years or more, I used to do some Family History research but I cannot really get about these days, we had a good run around the city centre on our mobility scooters last year ( did not see any other mobility scooter users in the town.) I hope you may find what I had quoted but sometimes records can be very time consuming. If only I had taken the trouble to save the information at the time.
Best Of Luck with your searching Lyn.
Ernie.
 
hi ernie...dont worry about it...i bet most of us have read something that we wished we had stored in a memory bank...lol...ive written the details down and will get back on this thread if i can find out any info at the library....

lyn
 
Its definitely there somewhere Lyn, I just wish that I could have been a bit more precise. Anyway as I say the best of luck.
 
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