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Curzon Street Hotel

It would be good to attempt to reconstruct the usage of this site in a chronology. I think the census returns and Historic England's report can be reconciled. I noted your 1851 census returns at the start of this thread which is illuminating.

Rail Engineer wrote an account in 2022.https://www.railengineer.co.uk/the-london-birmingham-railway-curzon-street-station/?nowprocket=1

We can only hope that the existing building is preserved. This is Hardwick's core Principal Building, unfortunately the hotel extension was demolished as 1979-1982 as it was by another architect and held to detract from Hardwick's design.
 
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Stokkie said:
It would be good to attempt to reconstruct the usage of this site in a chronology. I think the census returns and Historic England's report can be reconciled. I noted your 1851 census returns at the start of this thread which is illuminating.

Rail Engineer wrote an account in 2022.https://www.railengineer.co.uk/the-london-birmingham-railway-curzon-street-station/?nowprocket=1

We can only hope that the existing building is preserved. This is Hardwick's core Principal Building, unfortunately the hotel extension was demolished as 1979-1982 as it was by another architect and held to detract from Hardwick's design.
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its a lovely old building derek...lets hope something can be done to hang onto it posting for those who may have missed it the video about the station


lyn
 
Astoness said:
its a lovely old building derek...lets hope something can be done to hang onto it posting for those who may have missed it the video about the station


lyn
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Thanks Lyn, I note the 2017 Act that enabled this section of HS2 included “Old Curzon Street Station building and wall to be retained” This is before the structural issues that paused work on the building. So fingers crossed. Derek
 
I believe there is little doubt about what was envisaged for the building which is now grade 1 listed and the plans originally included offices
, meeting rooms and refreshment facilities for the building that now stands, but how long, if any, there were offices there remains to be confirmed and it seems that Euston became the principal offices for the company. When construction was under way there were offices in different parts, but cost saving led to Euston being the principal location for several departments.

My fellow RCHS Colleague, John Minnis provided the material for the Historic England site quoting engineer Dockray as responsible for the design of the Extension, but there is an image of the Queens Hotel in the Science Museum Collection that shows the Queens Hotel design as being the extension and the original building.

The 1841 Census also shows a smaller establishment which would coincide with the original structure.
WARHO107_1144_1145-0351.jpg
 
Heartland said:
I believe there is little doubt about what was envisaged for the building which is now grade 1 listed and the plans originally included offices
, meeting rooms and refreshment facilities for the building that now stands, but how long, if any, there were offices there remains to be confirmed and it seems that Euston became the principal offices for the company. When construction was under way there were offices in different parts, but cost saving led to Euston being the principal location for several departments.

My fellow RCHS Colleague, John Minnis provided the material for the Historic England site quoting engineer Dockray as responsible for the design of the Extension, but there is an image of the Queens Hotel in the Science Museum Collection that shows the Queens Hotel design as being the extension and the original building.

The 1841 Census also shows a smaller establishment which would coincide with the original structure.
View attachment 189974
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Thank you Heartland. You seemed to want to refer to the existing building as Curzon Street Hotel which is not the conclusion of Historic England. I'm not a rail expert, but pragmatically if we want to preserve the building then I'd say Curzon Street Station would carry more weight. Alas Grade 1 listing doesn't give absolute protection to destruction or development. Derek
 
That sadly is the case and the existing building is not immune from alteration or a "crooked house" solution.
Having escorted people around both the existing and demolished buildings when I worked at Curzon Street PCD, it would be sad to see any serious change.
 
This engraving gives the name Nova Scotia Garden, presumably the area in front of the Curzon Street 'principle building'. Engraving is dated mid-19th century.

And a painted view dated 1838. Some minor differences in the details such as the keystone on the left-hand arch.

Screenshot_20250627_140802_Chrome.jpg
Screenshot_20250627_142101_Chrome.jpg
 
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Would this be the Nova Scotia Gardens (belonging to King Edwards School) mentioned in post #38?

Screenshot_20250628_224821_Chrome.jpg
Source: British Newspaper Archive
 
The early plans included a tunnel and a terminus id Nova Scotia Gardens, but that changed and the line was built to Vauxhall and then extended to meet the London & Birmingham Railway with a viaduct that crossed Lawley Street meeting up for through running of first class carriages near the time the LBR opened throughout to Curzon Street and the Grand Junction Railway built a separate terminus station facing Curzon Street, which the LBR entrance was from New Canal Street

The present HS 2 works has removed that part of the the street for the present
 
There arn't many images on this thread of the rear elevation, illustrating and comparing how the group of associated buildings have gone through change over nearly 200 years.

The rear view images show some of the changes before the extension was built and after removal. I think both flanking arches were removed when the extension was built.

The last two images show what still remains during the current HS2 project.
Screenshot_20251003_072116_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20251003_075038_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20251003_072122_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20251003_072936_Chrome.jpgScreenshot_20251003_073050_Chrome.jpg
 
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Heartland said:
Just to add to this thread, the name of the building can be linked to the Queens Hotel. There were various company meetings held here as well as other services such as inquests.
In 1850 Robert Bacon was the hotel keeper and his name was on the 1851 census as can be seen on the three attached pages,

View attachment 162328View attachment 162329View attachment 162330
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I'm intrigued by how Hardwick's Principle Building of 1838 (that part still standing today) was given the tilte of a 'Hotel'. It would seem to me that the development of the site appears to have been working very much within a changing plan at that time.

In 1838 it had a ground floor refreshment saloon on the arrivals side (originally planned to be the Traffic Office - if used as such, it can only have been for a very short time). Soon after, further space (the former Board Room) for refreshments was also adapted. This adapted area was given the name Victoria Hotel. The name was subsequently changed to Queens Hotel. It wasn't, at that time, an hotel as such, as it only provided refreshments. The use of the title 'hotel' suggests to me that, even in the early days of the Principle Building (1838-1841), there must have been some idea of a plan to extend it so that accommodation could also be made available. To erect a three storey building of that size in the time between the opening of the station and planning, and building a structure of 3 floors of accommodation by 1841 seems ambitious.

The removal of one of the flanking arches (albeit built at an angle and not aesthetically ideal) was removed to accommodate the new extension. Was this part of the plan ? So maybe the ownership of the adjoining land had a part to play in all of this ? Perhaps an hotel was envisaged, but land to build it on it was in other hands ? The Principle Building certainly seems to have been intended for railway use (traffic, meetings, etc), so perhaps adaptation to the Principle Building for refreshments and naming it an hotel were to 'make do' until a proper service was made possible via a new purpose-built hotel.

When the extension wing of three floors of bedrooms was added in 1841 (by a different designer), again additional space was made for a refreshment room (presumably within the extension itself).

The hotel extension's life and true purpose as a place offering accommodation must have been very short-lived, as by the early 1850s, very few, if any, passengers would be using the station, perhaps with the exception when the station, fir a short time, offered only excursions and was mainly concerned with freight.
 
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According to Historic England and Wikipedia…
1838: Philip Hardwick’s “Principal Building” opened with offices, directors’ rooms and refreshment facilities. Within a year the company asked Hardwick to alter the interior to create a hotel.

1841: The hotel was enlarged with a north wing along Curzon Street, designed by Robert B. Dockray (Stephenson’s assistant). In contemporary sources it’s called the “Queen’s Hotel” at Curzon Street (not to be confused with the later and much grander Queen’s Hotel at New Street). When the New Street hotel opened in the 1850s, the Curzon Street house became known as the “Railway Hotel.”
The building continued to serve passengers of the London & Birmingham Railway up to the 1850s, with refreshment rooms and accommodation alongside the station offices.

27 January 1847: The Institution of Mechanical Engineers (IMechE) was founded at the Curzon Street Queen’s Hotel, with George Stephenson as first president.
 
Thanks Pedro.

I think the use of the word 'hotel' in 1839 for the facilities wasn't strictly true as it didn't offer accommodation in the Principle Building, only refreshments. Which is why I say the plan all along must have been to build the extension. Perhaps !!!
 
Warwickshire Railways informs that the 1841 hotel extension… new north wing by Robert B. Dockray was added specifically to enlarge the hotel. Historic England notes this wing had a large refreshment room on the ground floor and bedrooms on the first, second and third floors, with kitchens below and bathrooms/WCs in the stair bay. In short: from 1841 the Curzon Street hotel offered accommodation.
 
London & Birmingham Railway and the Grand Junction Railway both operated from the station. Apparently, GJR also built their own independent entrance building and booking office located behind the departure platform.

Could this have been the building (red dot) in post #51 ? Do we know when this was demolished?

It might help to confirm a possible location for (temporary) accommodation of the 'hotel'/refreshments saloon until the extension was built.
 
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