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Brummie Ghosts

In an extract from the book by Joseph McKenna In The Midst OF Life.
On 22nd November 1780 Wilfred Barwick, a butcher was robbed and murdered near the four mile stone on the Coleshill Road. His murderers were two soldiers named John Hammond (an American by birth) and Thomas Pitmore. They were known locally as Jack and Tom. The two men were arrested tried and sentenced to be hanged and jibbetted on Washwood Heath near the scene of the murder. This was accordingly done on 2nd April 1781. For several days their bodies remained hanging in the gibbet's metal frame, exhibited for all to see. This site troubled some, and one night the bodies were taken down and buried. What became of the bodies remained a mystery until the morning of Thursday 20th January 1842. On this day the navvies employed on the construction of the Birmingham and Derby railways were instructed by an old man named Hill to dig in a certain spot. Two skeleton's still encased in irons were discovered. They were removed to the house of Mr Brown, the landlord of The Adderley Arms Saltley were they were re-interred under an apple tree in the garden of the Inn. The gibbet irons were displayed for several years at the inn before being passed on to the landlords son,Thomas Brown, licensee of the Aston Tavern in Aston Village.
 
Thanks for the prompt replies folks!!

I'm currently working on an article about a particular (alleged) crossroads gravesite and, in doing so, had come across a handful of other, local examples too.... but none - as far as I could see - from the Brum area.

Re. the Tyburn, this site has been mentioned in my aforementioned scribblings, I must admit, as it's not far from the site I was covering. As an asides, the group to which I belong had asked at the pub a number of times re. investigations, etc, but had always been put off with some form of denial re. the presence of ghostly happenings.

The case that you mention Wendy is an absolute corker!! Just the sort of thing I was looking for! (And two for the price of one with it!! Laugh!!) I had seen a very brief mention of the case elsewhere, before - perhaps on this forum, somewhere(?) - but detail was rather scant, I think..... so thanks for filling me in on the matter more fully!

In another case I was looking at, the skull of a suicide - found at a crossroads - was stolen by the local rowdies in a nearby pub and allegedly utilised as a drinking vessel!!! Charming!! Laugh!!

Thanks again folks!!

Regards,

Nick
 
Here are some more tales from the same book I have not changed the text although some e.g Pebble Mill is out of date.

"Tom Knocker Wood" is the unofficial name for a copse situated just south of the junction of Quinton Road West and West Boulevard on the Harborne-Quinton border. It was named after Tom Knocker, who according to legend,hanged himself here. Pebble Mill, better known today as the site of the BBC studio's, is also associated with the suicide. It was once the site of a water mill. Before the mill pool was filled in by a Mr Somerton, the mills owner,in the late 1870's, it was a place where pitiable people took their own lives.

At Shell Pool Soho in 1759 Matthew Bolton's first wife, Mary, took her own life.

At the junction of Rocky Lane and Bloomsbury Street not far from Nechells Green Library, is the site of another suicide's macabre burial. In 1800, a butcher while awaiting trial in Moor Street prison,killed himself. The coroner's jury, who according to the law sat on the coffin during the inquest, bought in a verdict of felo de se, or suicide. The poor man according to custom, was buried at midnight without any service, and a stake was driven through his body. It was the last time such a barbarous act was committed in Birmingham.

This is an extract from Joseph McKenna's book In The Midst Of Life available to buy from Birmingham Central Library.
 
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Hi Wendy,

Thank you very much for your reply and the associated data.

Tom Knockers Wood had come up in some of our research a few years ago when (I believe) we were looking into stuff associated with the Court Oak at Harbourne(?) I don't quite know where the association came in, but I tend to proceed like a headless chicken to begin with and then try and inject a degree of precision somewhere further along the lines!! Laugh!! I had been aware of the haunting associated with the old Pebble Mill Studio, but not the data that you have revealed here.... Thanks again!!

I wonder if Boultons wife was treated in the same manner (burial-wise) as a lot of suicides around this time!? Somehow, I think not, probably??? Laugh!!

The Nechells Green Library matter is totally unknown to me,but, again, right along the sort of lines I was looking for!! In the 'drinking vessel' matter that I mentioned earlier, this poor soul was also found with a stake through the heart too. Some say it's a practice related to the 'pinning of the corpse / spirit in it's grave', but I think it was frequently a simple fact of suicides opening themselves up (by law) to as 'undignified a burial' as could be meted out to them!! Oooooh - horror!!

All the best - and thanks again Wendy,

Nick
 
I remember Tommy Knockers wood it was across the road from "The Monarch" pub,Quinton Road West.
Never saw any ghosts there though,other than the spirits in the optics,at the pub.:)
 
Never saw any ghosts there though,other than the spirits in the optics,at the pub.:)

Ooooh Ray - the oldies aren't always the best!!:biggrin::biggrin:

Wendy - re. the murderers Hammond and Pitmore - this was the ref. I'd seen previously (on this forum) - vastly different, but surely the same case you mention here:

And the ones buried at the Gate Saltley is another strange story as a couple of locals were executed and their bodies put in irons on the gibbet and left to rot but someone must have felt sorry for them and cut them down and the bodies were never seen again but when they was building a new road by the gate at Saltley workmen found the remains and the irons that they were in, they ended up in a pub (cannot think of the name) by the Ressa at Aston and were on display for years

All the best,

Nick
 
I was born down the road from Tom Knocker's wood which, as Ray Barrett says, was close the the Monarch pub. The wood was next to Harborne Golf Course which the family used to walk across to get to Weoley Castle where my Gran lived. We would make the journey back in complete darkness so it was quite creepy. Everyone talked about the wood being haunted, but I didn't meet anyone who had witnessed seeing any ghostly happenings there. Anthea.
 
Anthea,
The path from the Monarch,to barnes Hill,was the one I used to walk when I lived in Bartley Green,
Went that way one night and unbeknown to me someone had put up a fence,had to climb over it.
The next day it had been pulled down,they never rebuilt it.:rolleyes:
 
All this talk of crossroads reminds me of the famous blues number by Robert Johnson in the 1930's (and revived by Cream in the 1960's):

I went down to the crossroads,
Fell down on my knees.
I went down to the crossroads,
Fell down on my knees.
Asked the Lord above for mercy,
Help me, if you please.

This is based on the old Deep South belief that suicides and witches were buried at crossroads. Robert Johnson (the inventor of rock'n'roll 20 years before the term was coined) was a Mississippi blues player who, according to legend, went down to a crossroads near Rosedale, Mississippi, where he sold his soul to the Devil in return for being able to play incredible blues guitar for seven years. Guess what? Seven years later to the day (or so it's said...) he died in mysterious circumstances in a saloon. He was only 27. It was said that if you stood at that particular crossroads at midnight a black man would appear; he would take your guitar from you, and he would tune it so that you could play like the Devil himself. And believe me when I tell you (as a blues fan and player myself) that even in 2010 there are musicians in the Mississippi Delta who still believe this.....I know I do.

Big Gee
 
hi all
my dad got me a job at welshes farm quinton in the late 50's, I lived by the castle square weoley castle and walked the 3 odd miles there and back on my own going up barnes hill across the stonehouse road and striking out across the fields and small copse of woods. I did this for some months in winter and spring I was never a squeamish kid, or would frighten easly on the way were some deserted air raid shelters the kids of the day would go there and light fires and do the things the kids of the 50's did, as I would have to start the milking at 5.30 am It would be about 4.30 when I passed these one morning as I came down the the slight dirt track incline a woman stood near the entrance I thought it strange and said "good morning" she did not answer and I continued a few paces and looked round and she was still there I thought she was dressed strange with a
hankachief/scarf tyed round her head and an apron type dress, I said are you allright or words to that effect but she said nothing I walked a few more steps and turned and she was gone. I continued to work and told one of the cow men who said a woman had committed suiside in the 40,s over her son being killed. I did not feel any sort of bad feelings or fear (no hair rising) ect but never walked that particular way again.
paul
 
I was born down the road from Tom Knocker's wood which, as Ray Barrett says, was close the the Monarch pub. The wood was next to Harborne Golf Course which the family used to walk across to get to Weoley Castle where my Gran lived. We would make the journey back in complete darkness so it was quite creepy. Everyone talked about the wood being haunted, but I didn't meet anyone who had witnessed seeing any ghostly happenings there. Anthea.

I get the impression, from the posts on here, that the Wood doesn't exist anymore, perhaps? I think I recall seeing something about it in one of those 'Harborne In Old Photos' type books a few years ago.... but I can't for the life of me recall what the pic itself was? (And please don't say 'a wood' anyone!!:D:D)

All this talk of crossroads reminds me of the famous blues number by Robert Johnson in the 1930's (and revived by Cream in the 1960's):

I went down to the crossroads,
Fell down on my knees.
I went down to the crossroads,
Fell down on my knees.
Asked the Lord above for mercy,
Help me, if you please.

This is based on the old Deep South belief that suicides and witches were buried at crossroads. Robert Johnson (the inventor of rock'n'roll 20 years before the term was coined) was a Mississippi blues player who, according to legend, went down to a crossroads near Rosedale, Mississippi, where he sold his soul to the Devil in return for being able to play incredible blues guitar for seven years. Guess what? Seven years later to the day (or so it's said...) he died in mysterious circumstances in a saloon. He was only 27. It was said that if you stood at that particular crossroads at midnight a black man would appear; he would take your guitar from you, and he would tune it so that you could play like the Devil himself. And believe me when I tell you (as a blues fan and player myself) that even in 2010 there are musicians in the Mississippi Delta who still believe this.....I know I do.

Big Gee

Get down to Five Ways Big Gee and see what sort of a contract you might get offered!!:D:D

Throughout world culture, crossroads have almost always been regarded as occult / supernatural related sites. Not just a meeting of physical ways, but also of the para-physical too. Witches are said to have met at crossroads, as are vampires, shamen / witchdoctors and ghosts in certain countries. The devil - or his equivalent - crops up in a lot of crossroad related lore all round the globe, frequently involving a pact or contract of some description.

hi all
my dad got me a job at welshes farm quinton in the late 50's, I lived by the castle square weoley castle and walked the 3 odd miles there and back on my own going up barnes hill across the stonehouse road and striking out across the fields and small copse of woods. I did this for some months in winter and spring I was never a squeamish kid, or would frighten easly on the way were some deserted air raid shelters the kids of the day would go there and light fires and do the things the kids of the 50's did, as I would have to start the milking at 5.30 am It would be about 4.30 when I passed these one morning as I came down the the slight dirt track incline a woman stood near the entrance I thought it strange and said "good morning" she did not answer and I continued a few paces and looked round and she was still there I thought she was dressed strange with a hankachief/scarf tyed round her head and an apron type dress, I said are you allright or words to that effect but she said nothing I walked a few more steps and turned and she was gone. I continued to work and told one of the cow men who said a woman had committed suiside in the 40,s over her son being killed. I did not feel any sort of bad feelings or fear (no hair rising) ect but never walked that particular way again.
paul

I don't blame you not venturing that way again after that encounter Paul!!:shock::shock: Thanks for sharing your story!!

All the best,

Nick
 
Hi guys
iTS AMAZING HOW MANY TOM KNOCKERS WOODS WAS AROUND IN THOSE ESPECIALY IN THE EARLY YEARS
WHEN WE WAS KIDS WE DISCOVERED TOM KNOCKERS WOODS UP IN HARBORNE THERE IS A SCHOOL BUILT THERE NOW IT AS FOR MANY A YEARS
IT WAS ALONG SIDE THE ORIGIONAL CHAD VALLY COMPANY LONG BEFORE THEY MOVED FURTHER INTO HARBORNE
I THINK IT,S CALLED WESTFIELD IFANTS OR JUNIOR SCHOOL AND ITS BY WESTFIELD RD ALLOTMENTS FACING IT
WHEN WE USED TO GO SCRUMPING IN HARBORNE TE OLD VICTORIAN HOUSE WITH THERE BIG GRAVEL DRIVES TO GET UP TO THERE HOUSE
AUGUSTEST RD AND ALL THOSE HIGH SOCIETY HOUSES WAS ALL AROUND IN THOSE DAYS
AND ONE SUNDAY WE TRAVELLED UP FROM LADY WOOD, FIRST WE CALL IN THE IVY BUSH [ NOT THE PUB ]IT WAS CONCEALED BY SHRUBS AND TREES
THERES A BIG MULTI BLOCK OF OFFICES THERE NOW AND WE CAME ACROSS A DESTROYED AND DEMOLISHED HOUSE WHICH WAS A GIANT HOUSE AND GROUNDS
WE DISCOVERED SOME OLD ROMAN LOOKING TILES, BUT ANY WAY THAT WAS OUR PLAY GROUND AND GOOD SCRUMPING WITH OUT TROUBLING ANY BODY IT WAS A BIG ISOLATED AREA WITH IN IT
WE MOVED FURTHER INTO HARBORNE UP WESTFIELD RD CLOCKING THE WESTFIELD ALLOTMENTS WE WOULD LOOK OVER THE STEEL SPIKED RAILING
WE COULD SEE RIGHT ACROSS IT THROUGH TO HARBORNE HILL WE WAS LOOKING FOR THE APPLE TREES AND PEARS TREES
IT WAS ALWAYS ON A SUNDAY WHEN WE WENT UP THERE AND THE FIRST THING WE THOUGHT IS MR NORTHEDGE THE SCHOOL TEACHER IN THE ALLOTMENTS
AS WE KNEW HE HAD A PLOT IN THERE , WE DID NOT WANT TO BE SEEN BY HIM ,IN THE ALLOTMENTS BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ALL HELL WITH IS PLIMSOLE
ON MONDAY MORNING THEN HE WOULD HAVESENT US TO MR KITCHENER
BUT CUTTING THE STORY SHORT WE ENTERERD INTO AN OPENING AND THERE WAS THIS STREAM RUNNING THROUGH THE PLACE
SO WE MESSED AROUND AND ENTERED FURTHER TO DISCOVER CHAD VALLEYS PREMISES AND ALSO THERE WAS THIS WOODED AREA IT WAS DENCE AND SPOOKY AND IT WENT FOR A COUPLE OF MILES WITH WILLOW TREES AND ALSORTS OF TREES AND WILLOWS
AND WE WAS TOLD ITS TOM KNOCKERS WOODS, AND FROM THAT DAY ONWARDS AND EVERY SUNDAY WHEN WE WENT OUT ALTOGETHER
WELL LADS WE CAN,T AFFORD THE 3D ALL ROUND THE NO 8 CIRCLEBUS NOR ON THE ELEVEN OUTER CIRLE CO,S THAT WAS ABIT MORE MONEY
SO WE SAID IF WE ALL AGREE LETS GO TO TOM KNOCKERS WOOD AND WE HAVE KNOWN THAT PLACE FOR DONKEYS YEARS
AS WE GREW UP AND LATER IN TIME THEY HAVE BUILT A SCHOOL ON IT
I CAN ALSO REMEMBERING THE ARTICLE ABOUT PEBBLE MILL WHEN IT WAS STILL OPERATIONAL AND BEING IN THE NEWS PAPER OF IT ORIGIN
ON THE SUNDAY MERCURY THAT IT WAS CALLED TOM KNOCKERS WOOD AND I ACTULAY SAID TO MY BROTHERS AND FRIENDS AT THE TIME WAY , WAY , THEN
LOOK ANOTHER TOM KNOCKERS WOOD
BEST WISHES Astonian ;;;
 
hi nick
Thanks for that comment, looking back it does not seem so strange on those walks, I often bumped into people some shooting others mushrooming and others going to work by walking across the fields. I wondered after remonissing as to why when it was damp she was'nt wearing a rain coat only a thin dress I now feel extreamlly sorry for her if it was indeed a spirit how dreadfully she must have suffered to have done such a thing, I now have a son in harms way soldiering. Strange how we think when older I should not think I had thought of this instance once in the past 50 odd years.
paul
 
hi nick
Thanks for that comment, looking back it does not seem so strange on those walks, I often bumped into people some shooting others mushrooming and others going to work by walking across the fields. I wondered after remonissing as to why when it was damp she was'nt wearing a rain coat only a thin dress I now feel extreamlly sorry for her if it was indeed a spirit how dreadfully she must have suffered to have done such a thing, I now have a son in harms way soldiering. Strange how we think when older I should not think I had thought of this instance once in the past 50 odd years.
paul

Hi Paul - it's a terrible thought to consider that, if this woman had killed herself through a mixture of love and abject sorrow, she should still be paying for such an act in the hereafter(?) I've never been very happy with the notion of 'earthbound entities' for a variety of different reasons, but, from this angle alone, lets just hope that such things do not exist, eh? Perhaps some form of unfeeling snap-shot of the woman in her final moments, but hopefully not an eternity in suffering, as some would want us to believe.:(:(

Hi guys
iTS AMAZING HOW MANY TOM KNOCKERS WOODS WAS AROUND IN THOSE ESPECIALY IN THE EARLY YEARS
WHEN WE WAS KIDS WE DISCOVERED TOM KNOCKERS WOODS UP IN HARBORNE THERE IS A SCHOOL BUILT THERE NOW IT AS FOR MANY A YEARS
IT WAS ALONG SIDE THE ORIGIONAL CHAD VALLY COMPANY LONG BEFORE THEY MOVED FURTHER INTO HARBORNE
I THINK IT,S CALLED WESTFIELD IFANTS OR JUNIOR SCHOOL AND ITS BY WESTFIELD RD ALLOTMENTS FACING IT
WHEN WE USED TO GO SCRUMPING IN HARBORNE TE OLD VICTORIAN HOUSE WITH THERE BIG GRAVEL DRIVES TO GET UP TO THERE HOUSE
AUGUSTEST RD AND ALL THOSE HIGH SOCIETY HOUSES WAS ALL AROUND IN THOSE DAYS
AND ONE SUNDAY WE TRAVELLED UP FROM LADY WOOD, FIRST WE CALL IN THE IVY BUSH [ NOT THE PUB ]IT WAS CONCEALED BY SHRUBS AND TREES
THERES A BIG MULTI BLOCK OF OFFICES THERE NOW AND WE CAME ACROSS A DESTROYED AND DEMOLISHED HOUSE WHICH WAS A GIANT HOUSE AND GROUNDS
WE DISCOVERED SOME OLD ROMAN LOOKING TILES, BUT ANY WAY THAT WAS OUR PLAY GROUND AND GOOD SCRUMPING WITH OUT TROUBLING ANY BODY IT WAS A BIG ISOLATED AREA WITH IN IT
WE MOVED FURTHER INTO HARBORNE UP WESTFIELD RD CLOCKING THE WESTFIELD ALLOTMENTS WE WOULD LOOK OVER THE STEEL SPIKED RAILING
WE COULD SEE RIGHT ACROSS IT THROUGH TO HARBORNE HILL WE WAS LOOKING FOR THE APPLE TREES AND PEARS TREES
IT WAS ALWAYS ON A SUNDAY WHEN WE WENT UP THERE AND THE FIRST THING WE THOUGHT IS MR NORTHEDGE THE SCHOOL TEACHER IN THE ALLOTMENTS
AS WE KNEW HE HAD A PLOT IN THERE , WE DID NOT WANT TO BE SEEN BY HIM ,IN THE ALLOTMENTS BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ALL HELL WITH IS PLIMSOLE
ON MONDAY MORNING THEN HE WOULD HAVESENT US TO MR KITCHENER
BUT CUTTING THE STORY SHORT WE ENTERERD INTO AN OPENING AND THERE WAS THIS STREAM RUNNING THROUGH THE PLACE
SO WE MESSED AROUND AND ENTERED FURTHER TO DISCOVER CHAD VALLEYS PREMISES AND ALSO THERE WAS THIS WOODED AREA IT WAS DENCE AND SPOOKY AND IT WENT FOR A COUPLE OF MILES WITH WILLOW TREES AND ALSORTS OF TREES AND WILLOWS
AND WE WAS TOLD ITS TOM KNOCKERS WOODS, AND FROM THAT DAY ONWARDS AND EVERY SUNDAY WHEN WE WENT OUT ALTOGETHER
WELL LADS WE CAN,T AFFORD THE 3D ALL ROUND THE NO 8 CIRCLEBUS NOR ON THE ELEVEN OUTER CIRLE CO,S THAT WAS ABIT MORE MONEY
SO WE SAID IF WE ALL AGREE LETS GO TO TOM KNOCKERS WOOD AND WE HAVE KNOWN THAT PLACE FOR DONKEYS YEARS
AS WE GREW UP AND LATER IN TIME THEY HAVE BUILT A SCHOOL ON IT
I CAN ALSO REMEMBERING THE ARTICLE ABOUT PEBBLE MILL WHEN IT WAS STILL OPERATIONAL AND BEING IN THE NEWS PAPER OF IT ORIGIN
ON THE SUNDAY MERCURY THAT IT WAS CALLED TOM KNOCKERS WOOD AND I ACTULAY SAID TO MY BROTHERS AND FRIENDS AT THE TIME WAY , WAY , THEN
LOOK ANOTHER TOM KNOCKERS WOOD
BEST WISHES Astonian ;;;

Hi Astonian - as with a lot of the ghost stories and ghost lore associated with these types of places, I think that the names of such sites sometimes 'wander' around a region too!!:D Seriously though, I have been looking into a place known as The Deadwomans Grave recently and discovered that there are at least 3 such places in as many miles!!:rolleyes::D

BTW - I'm glad that you didn't live near my old house as a kid Astonian..... the apples from our trees were to die for!!:D

All the best to everyone,

Nick
 
hi nick
the best pears came from tom knockers wood full of lovely juiceie pears
and the best apple grower was in augusta rd harbone
we never did find old daddy northedge plot nor his tree
he was the music teacher at icknield st school hockley brook
many , many years ago . bless him .hhe would have played a tune on us if he caught us
the best place for spirits are or was at the ickneild st, front entrance many years ago
when the crem was still standing but they do not seem to appear today as much of todays
moderern building
speaking of the spirits what is your opiniun of spiritual churchs --- nick
and the mediums i am going to enrol with a meeting of spiritual people in acouple of weeks
years ago there used to be achurch at lodge r [ the flat as it was called them
where this took place .
my daughter whom lives in acocks green goes to one in solihull
and the things she as told me is abit hair raising . so i am intrigue myself
i do not want to say much more on that at the moment
but i myself as had some very good things of sightation during my life from birth
to beleive in such things
look foreward to hearing from you more
have a good day best wishes Astonian ;;;
 
hi nick
the best pears came from tom knockers wood full of lovely juiceie pears
and the best apple grower was in augusta rd harbone
we never did find old daddy northedge plot nor his tree
he was the music teacher at icknield st school hockley brook
many , many years ago . bless him .hhe would have played a tune on us if he caught us
the best place for spirits are or was at the ickneild st, front entrance many years ago
when the crem was still standing but they do not seem to appear today as much of todays
moderern building
speaking of the spirits what is your opiniun of spiritual churchs --- nick
and the mediums i am going to enrol with a meeting of spiritual people in acouple of weeks
years ago there used to be achurch at lodge r [ the flat as it was called them
where this took place .
my daughter whom lives in acocks green goes to one in solihull
and the things she as told me is abit hair raising . so i am intrigue myself
i do not want to say much more on that at the moment
but i myself as had some very good things of sightation during my life from birth
to beleive in such things
look foreward to hearing from you more
have a good day best wishes Astonian ;;;

Hi Astonian - thanks for the prompt reply!

Re. the apples - you see... I didn't have to go out scrumping, as we always had our own, bumper crop every year!!:grinsmile::grinsmile: Only a lowly council house, mind you - no lavish orchard or anything like that - there were just two lovely trees in the back garden when we moved in during the early 70's.:grinsmile: The first thing the people who moved into the house after me did was cut the poor things down though!!:crying: Couldn't believe that, when I was told later!!

Re. Spiritualists, mediums and the like, I'm afraid I don't believe in that sort of thing Astonian. I've been to a few in my time and always thought that what they come out with is rubbish, to be honest. (Some were so downright bad / wrong in telling me stuff about myself, that was almost paranormal in itself!!:D:D)

I'm not denying that people see ghosts and have paranormal experiences however, as I view such things as totally different / removed to the above mentioned subject.

Tell us some of your spooky experiences then Astonian!!;);)

All the best,

Nick
 
Nick, To the locals the 'wood' was always referred to as Tom Knocker's Wood. On a map dated 1834 of Harborne Village Tom Knocker's Wood is marked. It is, or was, situated on the border of Harborne which, when the Council Estate was built in 1936 became part of Quinton. When the family walked up West Boulevard to the 'wood' in the 1940's I remember it consisted of a fairly small area with large trees which made an eerie sound when the wind was blowing. There was a stile to climb over to gain access to Harborne Golf course. I Googled 'Tom Knocker's Wood' some time back, which brought up a picture of a painting someone had done of the exact spot. Anthea.
 
hi all
when a lad I was in the army cadets and transfired from Northfield (Royal Warwicks) to Harborne (Royal Engineers) and the site was situated up past the new round pub? and down a little lane which then ran up to the golf course, we would sometimes go to the small wood to "train" was this "Tom Nockers" ?? you could see the Police dog training school from the edge of the wood, I have forgotten the road names over the last 50 odd years in was down the bottom end of War Lane.
Paul
 
Hi Anthea and Paul,

As I think I mentioned a little earlier in the thread, I cannot help but wonder if the name Tom Knocker possibly derives from a reference to the supernatural creature called a 'Knocker' at all. This 'thing' - basically a leprechaun-type creature - turns up in Welsh and Cornish folklore (usually associated with mines, pits and the like). In American folklore, it is more usually called a Tommyknocker'. (As in the story by horror writer, Stephen King).

Is there a history of someform of mine working in the region concerned at some point, I wonder. Perhaps it got it's name from an itinerate Cornish or Welsh miner at some point??:rolleyes::D In the Walsall area, we have (or should I say 'had') a Hobgoblin Pit, with a Hobgoblin Wood nearby.

All the best and thanks for your information.

Regards to all,

Nick;)
 
Hi Paul, I think it is possible you did your training in Tom Knocker's Wood, although it is was over the other side of the Golf Course. The pub you mention would, I think, have been the Scarlet Pimpernel situated on the corner of Tennal Road and Northfield Lane. Along Northfield Lane was Home Farm and that is where part of the farmhouse is used as a Police Dog Training Centre. Some of the farmland was sold which became the Golf Course.

Hi Nick, Around the area I have just mentioned to Paul, was a farm called Welsh House Farm and it's a long shot, but perhaps there was a Welsh connection as you describe to Tom Knocker's Wood???? There is now a school and houses and flats where the farm once stood, it was demolished in 8 July 1962, but the name has survived ie Welsh House Farm Road.

Also, according to my book on Old Harborne there is a picture of what was left of the wood (and stile) after most of it was felled in the 1930's when the new estates were built. Regards, Anthea.
 
The story of the Pell family of Coxwell Road - mentioned elsewhere on this thread, I believe - is probably the most widely publicised case from the area and has appeared in many books. This is the story that concerns a child of the family allegedly being smothered to death in it's cot by a ghostly dog, etc.

Please don't take all of the detail below as honest reporting, as it's horrendously out of context and dramatic !! however, it gives the gist of the happenings, etc:

One of the most frightening accounts in the annals of the paranormal is this report of a ghostly dog-- or an evil entity manifesting in the form of a dog-- that suffocated a child. In May 1955 the Pell family moved into their new home on Coxwell Road in Birmingham, England. During their first weekend in the house they wer awakened by the sound of a slamming door. Frank Pell was puzzled because he knew that he had carefully locked all the doors before retiring that evening , so he got out of bed to investigate. As he stood in the kitchen, he heard a scraping sound like the noise of a scrambling animal. After that the house was silent, and Pell returned to bed. As time passed, the Pells received nightly visits from an array of strange sounds. The greatest concentration of noises occurred around midnight, and no matter how the doors had been secured, they would bang to-and-fro as if they had a will of their own. Eerie whispers and incomprehensible phrases echoed in the air around the family. Both Frank Pell and his wife lay awake at night, listening and wondering, knowing that what was ahppening in their home could not have a natural explanation. Their dream house had begun transforming itself into a nightmare. Once while she was cleaning the bedroom, Mrs. Pell felt a cold draft and what she described as "icy, intangible fingers" running over her body. Even though the sense of evil had clearly presented itself to the Pells, both were sure that fear of it would only give it greater power over them. Then one hot June morning, the family awakened to find their baby had suffocated during the night. The child had been in the best of health and no mark of violence appeared on its body. Shortly after the child's burial, one of their sons startled them by asking if the baby had gone with the little white dog. The Pells knew that no dog had ever entered their house, so they asked their son when he had last seen the white dog. "On the night the baby left us," the boy replied. "The dog was sitting on the baby's face." Mrs. Pell became hysterical, and Frank could not calm her. The thought that a super-natural force had suffocated her baby to death horrified her. Although they summoned a priest to exorcise the negative spirits from the house, the bumping and banging continued with even greater regularity. By early July the feeling of evil in their home had become very strong, and Frank Pell feared for his wife. One day he rushed to the stairs where a frightening scene awaited him. His wife stood on the upstairs landing, transfixed with terror. Her limbs had stiffened and her hands clutched frantically at her side. The veins along her neck had swollen. Her eye bulged with terror, and her mouth gaped open in a silent scream. When Pell ran up the stairs to help her, he ran directly into an invisible force that would not let him pass. It seemed to shroud him like a net. At last he broke through the wall of evil with a powerful lunge. At that instant, his wife's screams filled the house. Without bothering to pack, the Pells took their children and left the house. Later, friends collected their belonging. They, too, heard the strange whispers and the weird thumpings, and once they finished packing, no inducement could bring them back into the house.



Regards,

Nick
 
My life, Nick, that could've been written by Edgar Allen Poe! Is that house in Coxwell Road still standing, and if so have there been any further reports of phantom doggies, impenetrable walls of evil on the stairs, and so forth? Somewhere off Icknield Port Road, I believe.

Big Gee
 
hi nick
coxwell rd sounds very intresting to read, i had a freind whom lived oppersite coxwell rd
by the name of golding hom was bought up in hyde rd which was facing coxwell rd
and my old dutchess brought up around the corner from there i,ll asked her about it
but on he subject of ghostly spirits my daughter and a friend whom is a spirited from solihull
are going to the old court house in slack lane handsworth next week for the reading and have been told there is life after death there , meaning there are ghost spirits in there and they are very strong they have been told
and a certain deparmeent as asked them to go in and test and search
they have had permission from the council to go in and explore which i beleive to be postive
at this stage i will not say much more about the ghostly world just righ now but i do feel i have got alot to say
on it and it involves free masons scoff and laugh you may but i will tell you all more next week
i will asked tonight the date i am so intrigue by her and her freind there was a lady senor in th field of
this whom contacted her from coventry also outof he blue there was a couple from america
whom she never heard off by the name of jelf whom is in recular contact with her these peole are alive not dead
they down loaded thee pictures of them selves in there home in america
but any way they have been given permission to go into slack lane court house and sound out these ghostly spirits i will keep you posted , best wishes astonian ;;;;
 
My life, Nick, that could've been written by Edgar Allen Poe! Is that house in Coxwell Road still standing, and if so have there been any further reports of phantom doggies, impenetrable walls of evil on the stairs, and so forth? Somewhere off Icknield Port Road, I believe.
Big Gee

It was a bit on the dramatic side ('a bit'????:rolleyes:) but it was the first rendition of the story I came across, so I thought it would suffice!!:D

32 Coxwell Rd?

Aye - that's the address KevKonk. I believe that - as with a few other, allegedly haunted buildings - the site concerned was subsequently demolished by the local corporation(?) I'm basing this on the point that Coxwell Road used to be a fair bit longer (at the time of these events) than it is now, so I'm guessing the haunted property was possibly one of the houses that vanished(?) Needless to say, perhaps someone could comment on this and put me right if I'm in error?

hi nick
coxwell rd sounds very intresting to read, i had a freind whom lived oppersite coxwell rd
by the name of golding hom was bought up in hyde rd which was facing coxwell rd
and my old dutchess brought up around the corner from there i,ll asked her about it
but on he subject of ghostly spirits my daughter and a friend whom is a spirited from solihull
are going to the old court house in slack lane handsworth next week for the reading and have been told there is life after death there , meaning there are ghost spirits in there and they are very strong they have been told
and a certain deparmeent as asked them to go in and test and search
they have had permission from the council to go in and explore which i beleive to be postive
at this stage i will not say much more about the ghostly world just righ now but i do feel i have got alot to say
on it and it involves free masons scoff and laugh you may but i will tell you all more next week
i will asked tonight the date i am so intrigue by her and her freind there was a lady senor in th field of
this whom contacted her from coventry also outof he blue there was a couple from america
whom she never heard off by the name of jelf whom is in recular contact with her these peole are alive not dead
they down loaded thee pictures of them selves in there home in america
but any way they have been given permission to go into slack lane court house and sound out these ghostly spirits i will keep you posted , best wishes astonian ;;;;

Thanks for the input Astonian!;) Do keep us posted on the Court House matter!!!;)

Regards to all,

Nick
 
HI NICK
Further to my last posting of the old court house in handworth up the lane
my daughter as informed me this morning it as been cancelled owing to the lack of
people able to attending and it was due to be on march the 6 th for the happening
but the good news is ; and for me , that we are going to the station hotel on the 7 th march
on the evening at dudley .we shall have a meal and a little history dicussion
then we are going down below through all the cellers and passages and we have been told to
bring our camera,s and torches for the occasion
i have heard the story,s about this station hotel and i think you wrote a article your self on this
on one of your old threads. so for me i am abit excited but also i will find out once and for all about the storyies are or was they genuine about the station i am hoping agaist all odds it will happen
to see, or not to see is the big question
best wishes Astonian ;;;;;
 
HI NICK
Further to my last posting of the old court house in handworth up the lane
my daughter as informed me this morning it as been cancelled owing to the lack of
people able to attending and it was due to be on march the 6 th for the happening
but the good news is ; and for me , that we are going to the station hotel on the 7 th march
on the evening at dudley .we shall have a meal and a little history dicussion
then we are going down below through all the cellers and passages and we have been told to
bring our camera,s and torches for the occasion
i have heard the story,s about this station hotel and i think you wrote a article your self on this
on one of your old threads. so for me i am abit excited but also i will find out once and for all about the storyies are or was they genuine about the station i am hoping agaist all odds it will happen
to see, or not to see is the big question
best wishes Astonian ;;;;;

Hi Astonian,

Sorry to hear that the Court House event was cancelled!! Strange that they couldn't get enough people to attend in this day and age.....?

The Station Hotel is a really popular site these days...... and I'm told that the meals are nice there!! Laugh!!!

Again - Let us know what happens matey!! I've only investigated the site once, but a mate of mine runs a group that used to regularly visit the site....... before Most Haunted got their mits on the place and they started doing regular ghost nights and the like. It's a massive building to cover and the cellars are most interesting!!

Regards and all the best for the night!!

Nick
 
The following is a matter which has been playing on my mind for a few weeks now - so I just wondered what other forum users might think on the subject?: I should begin by stressing that I loved my previous house – my home from early childhood and then onward for some 26 years – with a passion. It was where I spent the best years of my life and I would not have left it for the world if I’d have had any say in the matter. While skimming for the sake of brevity, it should be stressed that, at the time of leaving the property, a lot of anger and frustration went into thoughts of the place. Just prior to this and during the period of leaving, a considerable degree of abnormal or ‘troubled’ psychology was played out there. As some of my friends still live in the area concerned – certainly not a million miles from my current home – I still occasionally walk past the house. I’m sure a lot of people would know what I mean in saying that it ‘physically’ hurts me to see the place at these times, knowing that someone else now lives in ‘my home’. Despite the fact that I’ve been in my current address for some 13 years now, started a family and so on, the old house is still regarded as ‘home’ – the image that immediately pops into the minds eye - when anyone mentions the word. Since leaving the property, I have, on a regular basis, re-visited the house in my mind; walking through every inch of the place, trying to refresh and re-refresh my memory of every nook and cranny, stair and floorboard creak. I don't mind admitting that, for some years now - and given my interest in such matters - I had half joked about ‘myself’ possibly ‘haunting’ my old home in some way(?) In thinking about the house, I had got into the way of seldom missing out a ponderance over whether, at some points in time, my ‘apparition’ isn’t witnessed by the current occupants, shambling across the living room carpet or perhaps bounding up the stairs of the property! On this subject, I must admit that I have taken the notion further in actually ‘wishing’ myself on the property at times. I’m embarrassed to admit that this had been done in mixture of frustration and misguided anger at thoughts of my unwanted ejection from the place and the current residents…. “Look at me!” my ghost rages, “This is ‘My’ home that you’re living in!”. While moderately cliché, the subject of a thousand and one haunted house stories, this is a scenario that – embarrassment again – I have envisioned, in one form or another, oh-so-many times….. Come forward to the time of tapping out this piece – January 2010 – and, a few days ago, I receive a phone call on my mobile. (Contact via this medium – ahem! – mainly being ghost related, as this is the phone no. logged on our web site). There is a youngish sounding woman on the line who seems rather hesitant to speak with me to begin with; but this is certainly no surprise when dealing with ghostly topics, as pretty much everyone starts off with a rather ‘shy’ manner when discussing such matters. She asks me if I can possibly help her with some details on the history of a particular house – her mom and dads home – adding that she has called me without their knowledge? When I reply ‘if I possibly can….’ she throws me with the information that it is a place which she believes is known to me…. being my previous home! I initially thought that someone was possibly having me on, but – perversely and instantly intrigued - still ask what sort of things have supposedly been going on there. She tells me of some fairly standard happenings – including footsteps heard coming from upstairs and voices – and I instantly jump on the latter, asking what the voices sounded like and if anything could be heard clearly? It's bizarre to relate, but I’m instantly looking for a connection with either myself or the relative I lived with, and find myself crestfallen when she says the voices heard are those of their own family members who allegedly did not make the noises heard at the times they have been reported. On the same tracks, I then ask her if anything has been ‘seen’ in the house….. but, again, I’m told that only fleeting ‘shapes’ have been witnessed, or, on one occasion, a small child seemingly saw the figure of 'a man', but was far too young to describe anything about him in detail. Regarding the details of the happenings, I have been asked not to divulge too much, but suffice it to say that I could make no blatant or direct connections with myself or any of my family members and the activity concerned. What is mentioned appears to be a standard, poltergeist-like effect, quite typical of pretty much any other alleged haunting currently being reported in the early 21st Century. I was told that another family had briefly lived in the house immediately after my departure and in the mere 12 or so months that they were there, they had experienced some rather worrying happenings. The current family had taken over the property at the end of January and, by mid-February, ‘things’ apparently ‘began happening’. A quick digression should be inserted here on the subject of, so-called, ‘Apparitions Of The Living’. Such things are a recognised phenomenon in ghostie-related circles and, according to statistics, 'more apparitions of living people are seen than apparitions of the dead'. Personally speaking, I think such a quote is utter hog-wash, but where 'mechanics' are concerned, the common notion about such things is that someone might think about a building so much, through a passionate love of the place, for example, that they somehow, by some para-physical means, actually ‘project’ an image of themselves onto the site concerned. Any comments? Regards to all, Nick
 
Did you ever see a play called "The Stone Tapes" in the 70's (I was very young) but it related to an event or events being so strong that they leached into the fabric of the building and were released to be re played on occasion. I find that believable, more so than spirits of the dead. I lost my Father last year he was a few weeks off 90 years old and for the last 14 years was on his own after Mom died. He lived in a council house that he had occupied for about 55 years, and it was the house that I was born in and lived in for 26 years, left for 3 years and then returned to for another 5 years due to personal circumstances.
Like you I love the house I live in now, but had so many happy days in Dad's old house that I miss the place terribly, and although I live 25 miles away now in Stafford, I drive down the grove and look at Dad's old house every chance I get. I think of it a lot as you do, and find what you are suggesting as possible and believeable an explination for "strange" events as what was suggested in "The Stone Tapes" and far more believable than spirits.

John
 
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