-
Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.
We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
bromley st deritend
- Thread starter Astoness
- Start date
brummy-lad
master brummie
map and overhead 1937 view showing bromley st formally called penn st..and later may when the houses had gone
map from the 1880s showing the street was called penn st and the houses were still standing number 40 most likely in red
overhead map showing no 40
thanks to john and mike
map from the 1880s showing the street was called penn st and the houses were still standing number 40 most likely in red
overhead map showing no 40
thanks to john and mike
Kaitlynn
proper brummie kid
Thank you Astoness and pjmburns for starting this thread.
My paternal great grandparents (and thus my paternal grandfather) lived at 40 Bromley St from sometime between the 1911 census and the 1921 census, up until the second world war.
My grandfather, Frederick, was the youngest as you can see. Interestingly (and I cant remember where I heard this from now), but the census taker did not fill in the form correctly, and under 'months' they actually recorded the birth month of each person, rather then their ages in months. For example my grandfather was born on 1st June 1914, so his age should read '7 0' but instead it shows '7 6', 6 for June.
I was born in brum myself, at Marston Green Hospital, but moved to Kent when I was 7, and soon lost my brummie accent. I've only once been to Bromley Street, in 2009, and often wondered what it looked like back in the day, so thank you for these wonderful images.
It's good also to see where Lycetts was on Bromley see, as the census record shows my great uncle Thomas working there as an errand boy.
I could write a lot more in this post, for example, how I got stuck on my paternal great grandmother, Eliza for 30 years, due to missing something obvious; she wasnt married to William snr! Her death cert shows her 'maiden' name of Jackson, with the eldest son, also William, telling the registrar that he too was a Jackson and not an Allen (another mystery). It is my belief that William snr was married to someone else originally, but being catholic could not divorce them. It is with him that I am now stuck, as I have two possible families for him, and what I suspect is his brother, Earnest (shown as a lodger above), but no real idea which one is the right one. I'd also love to find out who, if anyone, William was married to before.
My paternal great grandparents (and thus my paternal grandfather) lived at 40 Bromley St from sometime between the 1911 census and the 1921 census, up until the second world war.
My grandfather, Frederick, was the youngest as you can see. Interestingly (and I cant remember where I heard this from now), but the census taker did not fill in the form correctly, and under 'months' they actually recorded the birth month of each person, rather then their ages in months. For example my grandfather was born on 1st June 1914, so his age should read '7 0' but instead it shows '7 6', 6 for June.
I was born in brum myself, at Marston Green Hospital, but moved to Kent when I was 7, and soon lost my brummie accent. I've only once been to Bromley Street, in 2009, and often wondered what it looked like back in the day, so thank you for these wonderful images.
It's good also to see where Lycetts was on Bromley see, as the census record shows my great uncle Thomas working there as an errand boy.
I could write a lot more in this post, for example, how I got stuck on my paternal great grandmother, Eliza for 30 years, due to missing something obvious; she wasnt married to William snr! Her death cert shows her 'maiden' name of Jackson, with the eldest son, also William, telling the registrar that he too was a Jackson and not an Allen (another mystery). It is my belief that William snr was married to someone else originally, but being catholic could not divorce them. It is with him that I am now stuck, as I have two possible families for him, and what I suspect is his brother, Earnest (shown as a lodger above), but no real idea which one is the right one. I'd also love to find out who, if anyone, William was married to before.
I dont think I am very good at this genealogy lark lol.
MWS
from Bham
The 3 matching Jackson birth reg. are on the GRO website. The 1911 census is on all of the genealogy sites, everything matches with the 1921 census - William (a carter) with Eliza, William (Bill), Thomas and Albert.
Florence and Frederick are reg. as Allen with mmn Jackson, so I think you're safe to assume that Allen is your name.
If Ernest Jesse Allen was William's brother then it would appear that they were the sons of a Charles Allen & an Alice Edkins. It would also appear that William married an Emily Winters and possibly had a daughter - Ellen Jane.
On the 1911 & 1921 census Emily appears to be listed as the wife of a William Haynes (no marriage) with a number of other children, some reg. as Haynes mmn Winters. Eliza Jane is also listed as Haynes so may actually be his daughter.
Florence and Frederick are reg. as Allen with mmn Jackson, so I think you're safe to assume that Allen is your name.
If Ernest Jesse Allen was William's brother then it would appear that they were the sons of a Charles Allen & an Alice Edkins. It would also appear that William married an Emily Winters and possibly had a daughter - Ellen Jane.
On the 1911 & 1921 census Emily appears to be listed as the wife of a William Haynes (no marriage) with a number of other children, some reg. as Haynes mmn Winters. Eliza Jane is also listed as Haynes so may actually be his daughter.
MWS
from Bham
Hopefully of interest, Lyn.
A little more possible confirmation of William Allen's relationships.
On the 1901 census William and Emily (Winters) are living with Emily's mother on Little Edward St. William's mother Alice (as West) and children are also living on Little Edward St.
And Ellen Jane Allen appears to be listed as Allen on her 2 marriages, so is probably William's daughter after all.
A little more possible confirmation of William Allen's relationships.
On the 1901 census William and Emily (Winters) are living with Emily's mother on Little Edward St. William's mother Alice (as West) and children are also living on Little Edward St.
And Ellen Jane Allen appears to be listed as Allen on her 2 marriages, so is probably William's daughter after all.
MWS
from Bham
I think it's correct, they appear to have been a little flexible with the truth.
pjmburns
master brummie
The marriage cert on your tree for William and Emily Winter and which I pasted earlier is not a Catholic marriage. William may have been Catholic and attended Mass at St Annes but his marriage was C of E. As was his Father's marriage to Alice.
You need to bear in mind that divorce for ordinary working people was often out of the question as being too expensive, This led to quite a number of couples "living together" and with "wives" adopting surnames.
Last edited:
MWS
from Bham
William Allen and Emily Winters could have only been together for a few years.
Married late 1899
Together in 1901
Ellen Jane reg. Jun 1902
Emily's first child (Emily) with William Haynes reg. Mar 1904
William's first child (William) with Eliza Jackson reg. Dec 1905
Probably never know who left who.
Married late 1899
Together in 1901
Ellen Jane reg. Jun 1902
Emily's first child (Emily) with William Haynes reg. Mar 1904
William's first child (William) with Eliza Jackson reg. Dec 1905
Probably never know who left who.
Kaitlynn
proper brummie kid
So much to take in, thank you, going to take this bit by bit over a few posts.
Firstly - On the subject of Earnest, it seems he was up to something too, as he is shown in at least one Electoral Register in the 20s and 30s (1920 for example) as being at 40 Bromley Street but using his middle name, "Jesse"....
This really threw me off when I found this before the 1921 census was released, because for a time I thought it might be a woman, and thus Williams Snrs mother.
Secondly - in regards William Snr and Earnest's parents, I've had on my tree in Ancestry for sometime now....
However, I was sceptical that it was correct, because I thought I had found another Allen family during the same era in Birmingham, also with a father called Charles and sons called William and Ernest (not diff spelling for Earnest), with very similar birth years. Obviously I added this after the confusion where I thought a "Jesse" was Williams Snr mother (as outlined above).
More to follow....
Firstly - On the subject of Earnest, it seems he was up to something too, as he is shown in at least one Electoral Register in the 20s and 30s (1920 for example) as being at 40 Bromley Street but using his middle name, "Jesse"....
This really threw me off when I found this before the 1921 census was released, because for a time I thought it might be a woman, and thus Williams Snrs mother.Secondly - in regards William Snr and Earnest's parents, I've had on my tree in Ancestry for sometime now....
However, I was sceptical that it was correct, because I thought I had found another Allen family during the same era in Birmingham, also with a father called Charles and sons called William and Ernest (not diff spelling for Earnest), with very similar birth years. Obviously I added this after the confusion where I thought a "Jesse" was Williams Snr mother (as outlined above).
More to follow....
Kaitlynn
proper brummie kid
EDIT - I see a problem with this. I have William Snr born in 1877, confirmed by his death cert and 1921 census, but the William Allen who married Emily Winters is shown as being 18 in 1899, giving a birth year of about 1881?
Last edited:
pjmburns
master brummie
William son of Charles Allen and Alice Edkins appears to have been born in 1880.
There is a birth with mmn Edkins reg in 1st quarter of 1880.
Dates and ages were less important back then (no pension to claim etc).
[My Gran claimed to be born in 1889 (her gravestone says she was 80 the age she claimed to be) but her birth cert is dated 1891 making her 78 when she died.]
Last edited:
MWS
from Bham
In regards your family tree above.
Have you seen records that lists Eliza Jackson's name as Emma Eliza? I had found a possible for her (an Eliza Emily) but with no marriage to corroborate with it was difficult to be sure.
And just a bit of info about William's brother Charles, it appears he emigrated to the US, living & dying in Rhode Island.
