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Birmingham buses

Richard Dye said:
My larger concern is load density. Big buses with few passengers is not very cost efficient.
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Far less efficient is having small buses that cannot carry peaktime loads. The operating cost difference between a big bus and a small one is pennies, leaving passengers behind is corporate suicide. Having spent over 40 years in the industry I know that once they've found other ways to travel, you've lost them forever. Lots of small buses ("Breadvans" in the trade!) still have crew & maintenance costs, lots of them will carry the heavier loads but need more drivers. Costs again! Scheduling needs to be flexible, with seats per hour availability altering over the course of the day and flexible timetabling to allow for peak time traffic delays is necessary for the bus to arrive at its scheduled time.
 
Lloyd said:
Far less efficient is having small buses that cannot carry peaktime loads. The operating cost difference between a big bus and a small one is pennies, leaving passengers behind is corporate suicide. Having spent over 40 years in the industry I know that once they've found other ways to travel, you've lost them forever. Lots of small buses ("Breadvans" in the trade!) still have crew & maintenance costs, lots of them will carry the heavier loads but need more drivers. Costs again! Scheduling needs to be flexible, with seats per hour availability altering over the course of the day and flexible timetabling to allow for peak time traffic delays is necessary for the bus to arrive at its scheduled time.
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Fully understand that: I was referring to Erics comment.
My gripe about buses locally is that they use double deckers with umpteen seats doing 'milk round' routes with rarely more that one or two passengers travelling, I've followed many times around the Forest past dozens of stops where no-one gets on or off.
I think it would be cheaper for the local authority and better for the environment to forget the big buses and issue vouchers for free taxi rides.
 
Richard Dye said:
Fully understand that: I was referring to Erics comment.
My gripe about buses locally is that they use double deckers with umpteen seats doing 'milk round' routes with rarely more that one or two passengers travelling, I've followed many times around the Forest past dozens of stops where no-one gets on or off.
I think it would be cheaper for the local authority and better for the environment to forget the big buses and issue vouchers for free taxi rides.
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I think it is the Bus Operator rather than the local authority that determines which bus in it's fleet is in service. Better to use a double decker than have to buy another bus.
 
Harpers bus memories in colour by Roberts, Paul.

”Waiting at the Birminghan] Carrs Lane terminus in 1972 is No.8 (BDI 802) dating from 1951. It is about to load up on the 17.07 to Cannock, some 22 miles away. It was one of four RTs remaining in service when I started work for the firm. These AC Regent Ills came from St Helens Corporation who had bought 40 of them between 1950 and 1952. Ten years later they sold them off and Harpers obtained seven of them. Unusually they were built to full London Transport specification, making them identical to their southern counterparts, the only giveaway being their BDI registrations and external livery. Their slightly lower than normal height of 14ft 3%in enabled them to pass under a low bridge in St Helens, fractionally too low for the standard height bus, 14ft 6in.”


867CD0C1-EBB4-40DB-91BE-E16B1651D428.jpeg
 
Pedrocut said:
Harpers bus memories in colour by Roberts, Paul.

”Waiting at the Birminghan] Carrs Lane terminus in 1972 is No.8 (BDI 802) dating from 1951. It is about to load up on the 17.07 to Cannock, some 22 miles away. It was one of four RTs remaining in service when I started work for the firm. These AC Regent Ills came from St Helens Corporation who had bought 40 of them between 1950 and 1952. Ten years later they sold them off and Harpers obtained seven of them. Unusually they were built to full London Transport specification, making them identical to their southern counterparts, the only giveaway being their BDI registrations and external livery. Their slightly lower than normal height of 14ft 3%in enabled them to pass under a low bridge in St Helens, fractionally too low for the standard height bus, 14ft 6in.”


View attachment 175770
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Was that the original color?
 
Pedrocut said:
Harpers bus memories in colour by Roberts, Paul.

”Waiting at the Birminghan] Carrs Lane terminus in 1972 is No.8 (BDI 802) dating from 1951. It is about to load up on the 17.07 to Cannock, some 22 miles away. It was one of four RTs remaining in service when I started work for the firm. These AC Regent Ills came from St Helens Corporation who had bought 40 of them between 1950 and 1952. Ten years later they sold them off and Harpers obtained seven of them. Unusually they were built to full London Transport specification, making them identical to their southern counterparts, the only giveaway being their BDI registrations and external livery. Their slightly lower than normal height of 14ft 3%in enabled them to pass under a low bridge in St Helens, fractionally too low for the standard height bus, 14ft 6in.”


View attachment 175770
Click to expand...
These harper buses used to take workers from Brownhills area to GEC at Witton drivers Iremember was guy known as Trickle he worked in SM works as Truck driver and Stan Jaques he was fitter in Big Shop and later foreman in Turbo Shop.
 
now at 1670143125239.png
1670143061713.png
eg.No: HBF 679F - new 1966
Operator: Harper Bros (Heath Hayes) Ltd
Chassis: Leyland Titan PD2A/27
Engine: Leyland O.600 9.8 litre 6-cylinder diesel
Gearbox: Synchromesh
Body: Metro-Cammell 'Orion' 64 seats

1960s INDEPENDENT OPERATOR'S DOUBLE-DECK BUS
 
mw0njm. said:
now at View attachment 175776
View attachment 175775
eg.No: HBF 679F - new 1966
Operator: Harper Bros (Heath Hayes) Ltd
Chassis: Leyland Titan PD2A/27
Engine: Leyland O.600 9.8 litre 6-cylinder diesel
Gearbox: Synchromesh
Body: Metro-Cammell 'Orion' 64 seats

1960s INDEPENDENT OPERATOR'S DOUBLE-DECK BUS
Click to expand...
This bus is currently in the workshop for a major body overhaul and restoration.
 
Pedrocut said:
Harpers bus memories in colour by Roberts, Paul.

”Waiting at the Birminghan] Carrs Lane terminus in 1972 is No.8 (BDI 802) dating from 1951. It is about to load up on the 17.07 to Cannock, some 22 miles away. It was one of four RTs remaining in service when I started work for the firm. These AC Regent Ills came from St Helens Corporation who had bought 40 of them between 1950 and 1952. Ten years later they sold them off and Harpers obtained seven of them. Unusually they were built to full London Transport specification, making them identical to their southern counterparts, the only giveaway being their BDI registrations and external livery. Their slightly lower than normal height of 14ft 3%in enabled them to pass under a low bridge in St Helens, fractionally too low for the standard height bus, 14ft 6in.”


View attachment 175770
Click to expand...
I spent many a weekends pocket money when I was about 10 going from Kingstanding circle to cannock and back. I loved those old AEC's especially there noises. Good old Harper bros, AKA to us Brummie lads as Harpers bazaar.
 
More Harpers at the Birmingham Terminus


E06DB39B-2CD3-4987-954D-FB4B8C697D64.jpeg

We have finally arrived at Birminghan Carrs Lane, terminus for ail departures from the city after 9 January 1972. Fleetline No. 29 had recently had its first repaint in this 1973 view having been delivered in two cream band livery. Along with ex-St Helens No.8, Fleetline No.29 is waiting to make the 17.07 service 11 departure to Cannock which always had a duplicate on weekdays. It picked up further relief buses at Aston Six Ways, Kingstanding Circle and Aldridge, resulting in a convoy of five assorted vehicles all vying for pole position as their crews headed towards Heath Hayes and the end of their shifts. The reader will note that the building next to the RT is in various states of dereliction and demolition in other views within the book.

E5EC4783-3755-4A1B-8BE4-8FDDF17E77D2.jpeg
“Carrs Lane was also the terminus for the Birmingham to Boney Hay route 944, jointly operated firstly with Walsall Corporation and then with the West Midlands PTE. This route was normally operated by double deckers but occasionally a 51-seat coach would be used by Harpers.
Sometimes there would be a conductor and on other occasions the driver used a hand-held Setright machine, and a cash bag, as an impromptu one-man operation. No.61 (SBF 447)) was one of three 1970 Plaxton Elite/Leyland Leopard PSU3/3Rs with 4-speed manual gearboxes and 2-speed rear axles. The numbering system always replaced previous fleet numbers so the three in the batch were 61, 64 and 78. As a result of this policy the highest number allocated seems to have been No.80!”
 
Last edited:
Birmingham to Cannock. (There are descriptions in the text, will add to others)

“The rear-engined era came to Harpers in 1970 with the arrival of two Northern Counties bodied Daimler Fleetline CRG6/6LXs. Nos.29/30 followed in the summer of 1971 by Nos.31/32 which were similar buses. The earlier pair seated 77 passengers whereas No.31 (BRE 311)) waiting for trade during a Sunday evening at Carrs Lane in Birmingham) had a luggage rack over the front nearside wheel arch which replaced two seats. My friend Steve Page, conductor for the shift, gazes up the street while three friends who had come to meet me lean nonchalantly against the boarded up shop front. My presence in the middle of the road has alerted one of the striding pedestrians. He is looking over his shoulder wondering what is so special about this particular bus! It is in 'as delivered' condition still sporting cream bands just below the windows. An ex-Birminghani City Transport Daimler Fleetline, now belonging to WMPTE, swings out of High Street and into Carrs Lane where it will emerge onto Moor Street Queensway opposite Moor Street railway station.”

9E87EF6E-563E-4BB3-8F2C-446834D830EF.jpeg
 
The Harper fleet looked incongruous in Birmingham. Incidentally, the registration letters of the bus registration - and the similar ones in in the fleet, shown in Post 2109 - should be BDJ and not BDI.
 
Radiorails said:
The Harper fleet looked incongruous in Birmingham. Incidentally, the registration letters of the bus registration - and the similar ones in in the fleet, shown in Post 2109 - should be BDJ and not BDI.
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Thanks. This is the problem with cut and paste from small print. Have corrected Post 2109.
 
Perry Barr Bus depot have opened their new bus garage the other end of Wellhead lane. They made their last departure from the 90 year old depot to the new premises on Saturday 10th December 2022. When the old depot opened in 1932 the garage was reportedly the largest unsupported indoor space in the UK (ie built without pillars).

images



National Express West Midlands is continuing its journey to become net zero by 2030 with the start of full operations at its brand-new, environmentally-sustainable bus and maintenance garage in Perry Barr in Birmingham.

The new garage includes the following:
  • Parking spaces for over 170 buses
  • 12 maintenance bays, 3 fuel bays, 3 bus washes and 1 chassis wash
  • 150 solar panels
  • Heating via a hybrid system including Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHP), electric overhead radiant panels and Variable Refrigerant Flow, supplemented with solar panels – meaning there is no need for gas onsite.
  • A 432m2 green roof with a 22 species planting mix on an ultra-light sedum. By next summer, there will be up to 90% coverage helping improve air quality and habitats for wildlife
  • A green wall on acoustic panelling to help improve air quality whilst reducing noise pollution. A wild flower garden has also been planted behind the acoustic panelling to improve habitats for wildlife.
  • A self-contained water recycling system for the bus washes
  • Rainwater harvesting for toilets and urinals
  • Two snooker tables and one fish tank
  • On site cafe, Rest area, Separate quiet space, Shower facilities, training rooms
The new garage is part of the wider regeneration of Perry Barr. I believe they intend to use the site of the old depot for new Housing. Some budding photographer may want to get some pictures before the old depot is demolished.

www.nationalexpressgroup.com

Images - new depot

New depot images
www.nationalexpressgroup.com www.nationalexpressgroup.com
 
Janet Hunt said:
Perry Barr Bus depot have opened their new bus garage the other end of Wellhead lane. They made their last departure from the 90 year old depot to the new premises on Saturday 10th December 2022. When the old depot opened in 1932 the garage was reportedly the largest unsupported indoor space in the UK (ie built without pillars).

images



National Express West Midlands is continuing its journey to become net zero by 2030 with the start of full operations at its brand-new, environmentally-sustainable bus and maintenance garage in Perry Barr in Birmingham.

The new garage includes the following:
  • Parking spaces for over 170 buses
  • 12 maintenance bays, 3 fuel bays, 3 bus washes and 1 chassis wash
  • 150 solar panels
  • Heating via a hybrid system including Air Source Heat Pumps (ASHP), electric overhead radiant panels and Variable Refrigerant Flow, supplemented with solar panels – meaning there is no need for gas onsite.
  • A 432m2 green roof with a 22 species planting mix on an ultra-light sedum. By next summer, there will be up to 90% coverage helping improve air quality and habitats for wildlife
  • A green wall on acoustic panelling to help improve air quality whilst reducing noise pollution. A wild flower garden has also been planted behind the acoustic panelling to improve habitats for wildlife.
  • A self-contained water recycling system for the bus washes
  • Rainwater harvesting for toilets and urinals
  • Two snooker tables and one fish tank
  • On site cafe, Rest area, Separate quiet space, Shower facilities, training rooms
The new garage is part of the wider regeneration of Perry Barr. I believe they intend to use the site of the old depot for new Housing. Some budding photographer may want to get some pictures before the old depot is demolished.

www.nationalexpressgroup.com

Images - new depot

New depot images
www.nationalexpressgroup.com www.nationalexpressgroup.com
Click to expand...
Impressive. Thanks for posting.
 
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