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Birmingham buses

Well Lloyd got there before me and thankfully posted a photo of bus 60. (OF3969). The newspaper suggests buses, but I have details of only one bus so treated which is the one in the photo. A 1929 bus, one of ten, altered in 1931 for a larger seating capacity. The news paper was a bit late with its report as it seems the experiments were in done in 1933 and the bus was exhibited at the BIF at Castle Bromwich. After two years the bus reverted to petrol but was withdrawn soon afterwards. (1935).
This experiment should not be confused with the unsuccessful producer gas trials of WW2 (1943)

To be fair to the Illustrated London News it does say that experiments had been in progress for some time past, and that they had started some 20 years earlier. As it was a short reference in the motoring section it may be that their main point was the introduction of the new steel?

The Scotsman reports in Nov 1932 that the Gas Department are involved, and later in 1942 the Birmingham Daily Post tells of omnibus trips to Evesham and back.

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To be fair to the Illustrated London News it does say that experiments had been in progress for some time past, and that they had started some 20 years earlier. As it was a short reference in the motoring section it may be that their main point was the introduction of the new steel?

The Scotsman reports in Nov 1932 that the Gas Department are involved, and later in 1942 the Birmingham Daily Post tells of omnibus trips to Evesham and back.

View attachment 138818View attachment 138819
i had a gas powerd ldv sherpa van.it was twice as economical a petrol.and nil co2.out the exhaust pipe. in fact the power was better and smoother. but it was , as the comedian said (too risky):cold_sweat:
 
I think the news item in post 1800, by LLoyd, is not quite correct. The Prince of Wales was often at the BIF but not in 1933 it seems, but in 1932 and on other occasions of course. The person shown is The Duke of York, later to become George VI. He was accompanied by his wife, The Duchess of York (later Queen Elizabeth) and his mother Queen Mary. They were, of course, interested in some of the other trade products there.
 
A frequent trip out to Evesham would have been good testing for the bus and its novel, at the time, propulsion. Probably the results of these tests were what gave credence to the unreliable wartime use of gas producing trailers for petrol engined buses. It appears that many alternative fuels were tried at the time in Britain, creosote being suggested as one of them. Guy Motors were in the pioneering business it seems at the time. The BCT bus 60, see previous posts, was a Guy product and so was the converted Guy demonstrator (UK 8047) which had a Gardner diesel engine fitted to bus 208 (OC 8208) - the last two letter bus registration for the BCT which entered service in 1934. Other diesel demonstrators were tried from Crossley, Daimler and Leyland and other, lesser known, makers were tried. The winner was Daimler and subsequent deliveries, in 1934, were from them until 1937 when Leylands, for tram replacement, were bought. Diesel was now king!
 
A number of NXWM have been repainted in old liveries to celebrate 50 years since the formation of the WMPTE. This is a list of them taken from the NX Bus Historic Society newsletter
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A couple of weeks ago I saw the single-decker in what purported to be BCT livery but I did not recognise it as such and thought it was an independent bus operator setting up on an NXWM route. I saw it again later that day and realised what it was. The problem I saw with it was that it was on a route which does not come into the city boundary being completely in the Black Country and I guessed was based at the Pensnet garage in the Black Country. By chance I travelled on that bus a few days later when it was on the no. 9 route which does come into Birmingham. The driver had to assure at least one passenger that it was a genuine NX bus.
 
A number of NXWM have been repainted in old liveries to celebrate 50 years since the formation of the WMPTE. This is a list of them taken from the NX Bus Historic Society newsletter
View attachment 138847
A couple of weeks ago I saw the single-decker in what purported to be BCT livery but I did not recognise it as such and thought it was an independent bus operator setting up on an NXWM route. I saw it again later that day and realised what it was. The problem I saw with it was that it was on a route which does not come into the city boundary being completely in the Black Country and I guessed was based at the Pensnet garage in the Black Country. By chance I travelled on that bus a few days later when it was on the no. 9 route which does come into Birmingham. The driver had to assure at least one passenger that it was a genuine NX bus.
Lovely pics, well be being from Brum my opinion might be one sided but the Birmingham bus with the cream and blue looks the best.
I find the look of a Birmingham bus comforting, happy days from times gone by ?
 
A number of NXWM have been repainted in old liveries to celebrate 50 years since the formation of the WMPTE. This is a list of them taken from the NX Bus Historic Society newsletter
View attachment 138847
A couple of weeks ago I saw the single-decker in what purported to be BCT livery but I did not recognise it as such and thought it was an independent bus operator setting up on an NXWM route. I saw it again later that day and realised what it was. The problem I saw with it was that it was on a route which does not come into the city boundary being completely in the Black Country and I guessed was based at the Pensnet garage in the Black Country. By chance I travelled on that bus a few days later when it was on the no. 9 route which does come into Birmingham. The driver had to assure at least one passenger that it was a genuine NX bus.
So good to see. I remember the Coventry livery to be less red, more brown. Can we expect a "Midland Red" at some point?
 
A few years ago Midland Red West had two buses in the old Midland Red livery to celebrate 100 years of route 144 which runs between Birmingham and Worcester
 
The destination blind (front) mentions route 144 - 1914 -2014. The side one, I believe, just the time scale of 100 years.
 
The best method was to sit in the single seat at the top of the stairs and just look unconcerned as the conductor walked past. The upstairs seats besides the stair could sometimes work as well. If the conductor didn't collect the fare that wasn't my problem! Offering up a used ticket sounds pretty risky as the fare stage shown would most likely be completely wrong. If an inspector came on board I presume they picked up the 'slate' that was housed underneath the stairs and wouldn't that show the serial numbers in use?
The inspector would soon have spotted the fraudulent ticket and would more than likely, in the first instance, suspected the conductor of fiddling. Thankfully, nowadays, there are blanket checks on bus routes where revenue inspectors aided by the police can easily catch culprits and in most cases issue them with sometimes hefty fines or even court action. Ticket and travel pass fraud is now a lot more of a serious offence than it was in those days.
 
Busses

I Used To Go To Icknield Stret Hockley Brook On The Bus,s
Around On The No,8 From Aston Cross In Rocky Lane
We Was So Poor Mom Got A Load Of Plastic Tokens From The Education Dept , Some Was Grren And Some Was Red Ones
And They Was Thevalue Of 1 Penny Other Wise We Couldnt Get To School And Also Old Man Kitchener Wouldappearat The Front Door
Asking Why Ain,t We Are In School
Blimy They Was The Days
Diid Any Body Else Get These Tokens ,? .
Best Wishes Astonian ,;;
Fred Kitchen headmaster, Reggie Urch, Head teacher, and old man Northedge and of course old Joey Wise.
 
The inspector would soon have spotted the fraudulent ticket and would more than likely, in the first instance, suspected the conductor of fiddling. Thankfully, nowadays, there are blanket checks on bus routes where revenue inspectors aided by the police can easily catch culprits and in most cases issue them with sometimes hefty fines or even court action. Ticket and travel pass fraud is now a lot more of a serious offence than it was in those days.
One of the favourite tricks of students was to get on the bus then hand their pass through the window to one of their mates waiting outside, only noticed when I glanced through the mirror.
 
Despite the optimism of the newspaper it was not until 1922 when the new Birmingham double decked trolleybuses had a roof. They were claimed as the first (non-experimental) buses with a roof. The first BCT petrol engined double deck bus followed in 1924.
It a poor photograph but the vehicle colours do not suggest Birmingham, nor does the destination display.
However it is an interesting photo.
 
Can anyone tell me did bct buses have engine mountings or was the engine rigid to the chassis?
From the late 1920s engines had some form of flexibility in their mountings, more to reduce the shocks from road bumps risking cracking engine castings than anything else. It was soon noticed that flexibly mounting engines reduced the vibration of engines passing to the chassis and therefore being heard and felt by passengers, particularly with diesel engines, so the amount of flexibility was increased.
 
From the late 1920s engines had some form of flexibility in their mountings, more to reduce the shocks from road bumps risking cracking engine castings than anything else. It was soon noticed that flexibly mounting engines reduced the vibration of engines passing to the chassis and therefore being heard and felt by passengers, particularly with diesel engines, so the amount of flexibility was increased.
thanks Lloyd.i was reading that early buses justs had engine pads....and they increased the flywheel size. there must have been loads of vibration...
 
I see in both posts the tickets have a number in fact the first post the tickets have a real serious code
So was counterfeit tickets real or just a threat ?.
The idea of trying to punt off fake bus tickets seems unlikely ?
 
I think the 10d and 11d Workmen's tickets I showed have had the prefix codes hidden for the photo. Most tickets have code letters and numbers which had to be recorded at the start and end of shifts or days. That ensured all monies corresponded with their issue. The details were recorded on waybills (BCT), railways had other methods. Fraud is not only a passenger pastime, staff are also capable of it. It many stores cameras are close to checkouts/tills. They watch the staff as much as the customer. 19/11d and 99p. were often a good way of making sure money went into tills and not pockets as the till had to be opened to give change. It also looks cheaper than 20/- or £1. ;)
 
I think the 10d and 11d Workmen's tickets I showed have had the prefix codes hidden for the photo. Most tickets have code letters and numbers which had to be recorded at the start and end of shifts or days. That ensured all monies corresponded with their issue. The details were recorded on waybills (BCT), railways had other methods. Fraud is not only a passenger pastime, staff are also capable of it. It many stores cameras are close to checkouts/tills. They watch the staff as much as the customer. 19/11d and 99p. were often a good way of making sure money went into tills and not pockets as the till had to be opened to give change. It also looks cheaper than 20/- or £1. ;)
After my post I got to thinking the ticket codes were in fact to check on employee theft or at least a attempt to keep them honest ?,
So now I wonder if they used ticket sales to gather information as to how many buses to run and at what times ?.
So easy to do these days but back in the day did they ask the clippy's if they thought the #11 route needed a extra bus on Friday at quiting time ?.
 
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