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Birmingham buses

oldMohawk said:
I thought I had the pic below in this Buses thread but can't find it but I have it in another thread ... a good example of open platform riding!/QUOTE

I was an open platform rider. Now a days I ring the bell and stay in my seat until the bus stops and when getting on the bus most drivers wait until I am seated before driving off!
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The present day buses have quick acceleration and an equally fast stop which means it is preferable to stay seated rather than end up on the floor or worse still being propelled down the staircase.
 
Post 1406 is curious. MOF 227 (3207) was the last half cab bus - a Daimler with Crossley body of 1953 - to enter service with the BCT. Subsequent buses were demonstrators followed by the flat fronted fleet which made their appearance. It passed to the PTE in 1969. The last of the batch being withdrawn by the PTE in 1977. A black and white photograph could suggest its initial allocation to Acocks Green when new; it could also suggest a photo shot as suggested by OM.
Apart from one person behind the cab (conductor, inspector?) I cannot see anyone else on the bus.
I wondered if it was a driver under tuition, but see no 'L' plates or similar identification.
One other thought might be that the bus was being re-directed to fill a gap caused by another's failure or to cope with a sudden increase in passengers on one of the routes served by Acocks Green garage.
* Cue Hercules Poirot! :D
 
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Remember only too well being catapulted down the bus stairs in the 1970s when the #90/91 (or was it still the 29/29a in those days ?) took the corner of Snow Hill and Colmore Circus. Been on top deck for a fag. Looking terribly cool in platform boots and a maxi-coat. Getting up to alight (way before the stop as you did in those days) And whoosh, down we go .... a captive audience on the lower deck. Wiped the smug smile off my face I can tell you. Viv.
 
With open platforms you could jump on a bus when it was stuck in traffic like those folks jumping on the No 6 bus in this pic of Bull Street looking up from Corporation St. It is dated 1929 when Bull Street was two-way traffic.
Image447.jpg
The pic was in post#720 of the City Centre Photographs thread but became invisible because of Photobucket problems.
 
The bus on route 6 looks like 191 (maybe 194) either way the were AEC's of 1926, but with different bodywork. The 13A is also an AEC but of the 1927 deliveries. These buses lasted about ten years with the corporation. Route 6 - City loop to Sandon Road - commenced September 1926 Apparently the 6 was merged with the 5 and 7 in early PTE days.
13 service started in 1923 to enable people from Yardley Wood Road to access the trams routes at Sparkbrook. In 1927 the extended service to Haunch Lane commenced. 1929 saw more extensions as route 13A had a new terminus a Trittiford Park.The route had used Showell Green Lane but reverted to Stoney Lane (where the 13 had run) after the tram closures of the Stratford Road routes in 1937. Showell Green Lane by now had the Warstock 24 to serve patrons. The 13 service was not as intensive as the 13A, which was extended to School Road in 1949. The 13A became 13 in 1964.
Even after 1949 it was not uncommon to see buses in the lay-by at Trittiford. This was yet another route I could - for a change use to travel on. Buses did not run close to my home, all required a good walk to gain them, but the distances did not seem to matter in those day when few cars were on the streets.
Looking at the amount of traffic in the 1929 photo makes you realize why the one-way system had to be introduced in 1933, even if it was unpopular at the time.
 
Radiorails said:
Post 1406 is curious. MOF 227 (3207) was the last half cab bus - a Daimler with Crossley body of 1953 - to enter service with the BCT. Subsequent buses were demonstrators followed by the flat fronted fleet which made their appearance. It passed to the PTE in 1969. The last of the batch being withdrawn by the PTE in 1977. A black and white photograph could suggest its initial allocation to Acocks Green when new; it could also suggest a photo shot as suggested by OM.
Apart from one person behind the cab (conductor, inspector?) I cannot see anyone else on the bus.
I wondered if it was a driver under tuition, but see no 'L' plates or similar identification.
One other thought might be that the bus was being re-directed to fill a gap caused by another's failure or to cope with a sudden increase in passengers on one of the routes served by Acocks Green garage.
* Cue Hercules Poirot! :D
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Pretty sure a conductor or inspector would have had a tie on whilst a mechanic/fitter probably wouldn't as in the photo.
 
I missed comment on the destination blind. Usually SERVICE EXTRA meant was a bus available for passengers. A special journey/trial or photographic journey might be expected to read just that - SPECIAL?
 
oldMohawk said:
MOF 227 '00 Service Extra' on Fox Hollies Rd seems to be making a turn into Summer Rd as the driver and his mate look out at the camera. But why would they turn into Summer Rd when Acocks Green Bus Garage is 80 yds in front of them on Fox Hollies Rd ? No date for the pic but perhaps it was last day in service for the bus and they were doing a little swerve for the photographer !
View attachment 128347

Aerial view showing where the bus was ....
View attachment 128348
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When did the legal details move to under the coat of arms, I thought they were in the first panel behind the front wheel, I remember when the fleet number in gold was down there.
Here is one for the experts.....was Birmingham the only municipality to operate it's buses with a coat of arms only and no place name?
Bob
 
No Bob, many other municipalities only had their Borough Arms.

The more you look at that photo of MOF 227, the more things come to light. The centre panel, with herald, looks rather like a repaint and as you point out the legal lettering is positioned beneath the herald plus the fleet number on the waistrail. All the sliding ventilators are open - internal or partial repaint with strong odour maybe? I don't know when the fleet number moved to the waistrail but I guess it might be late 1950's when brush painting was discontinued and mechanical painting instituted. Two differentials, where the legal lettering appeared below the herald, was the 1631 - 1645 (GOE 631 - GOE 645) AEC's based on a London bus design. They only had four bays in the lower saloon and the Leyland PS2's JOJ 231 - 260 due to their forward entrance.
Incidentally the larger fleet numbers on the rear were replaced by smaller ones in 1953, This was to enable adverts to be placed there.
Looking back to my previous post regarding SERVICE EXTRA, as there is no route number, simply 00, I doubt it is in service; just a lazy blind description!
 
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Radiorails said:
No Bob, many other municipalities only had their Borough Arms.

The more you look at that photo of MOF 227, the more things come to light. The centre panel, with herald, looks rather like a repaint and as you point out the legal lettering is positioned beneath the herald plus the fleet number on the waistrail. All the sliding ventilators are open - internal or partial repaint with strong odour maybe? I don't know when the fleet number moved to the waistrail but I guess it might be late 1950's when brush painting was discontinued and mechanical painting instituted. Two differentials, where the legal lettering appeared below the herald, was the 1631 - 1645 (GOE 631 - GOE 645) AEC's based on a London bus design. They only had four bays in the lower saloon and the Leyland PS2's JOJ 231 - 260 due to their forward entrance.
Incidentally the larger fleet numbers on the rear were replaced by smaller ones in 1953, This was to enable adverts to be placed there.
Looking back to my previous post regarding SERVICE EXTRA, as there is no route number, simply 00, I doubt it is in service; just a lazy blind description!
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Thanks, I remember the move of the fleet numbers to the waist rail, I believe that was due to the gold number being lost when the weather was bad, also black numbers were cheaper than gold. Apparently the fleet numbers at the back were changed from the shaded pre war big numbers to simple gold unshaded numbers, partly as modernisation, partly on cost and also because of the time and skill needed to replace the numbers after repainting. The move to the smaller ñumbers higher up were of course for the adverts to be placed there as you so rightly say. . It is a pity we can't see the area above the rear entrance, because that is where they used to put the repaint date. You are right it could be on test possibly after a major service and respray, because although there is a notice in one window on the upper deck, there are no adverts and also is that a mechanics clip board behind the three seat over the rear wheel?

Bob
 
Dealing in the first instance with the bus shown in post 1428 the 38 route has a varied past. In January 1937 the 37 and 38 to Hall Green from Albert Street (the 46 and 47 were to corresponding destinations but from the city markets area) replaced the tram routes. numbered 17 to 21, that ran to Hall Green. Whilst the 37 and 46 ( 46 ceased in 1958) went as far as the boundary with Shirley, the 38 and 47 turned back at Fox Hollies Road. The 46 and 47 were not frequent, 47 seemed quite rare. The 38 was renumbered 37H in 1962; by 1971 - PTE days - the 37 became the 92.
November 1966 saw a new 38 route, which is the one seen on the bus in post 1428. The 13A, like many city routes, was extended to Priory Road/Ravenshill Road and in 1964 was renumbered 13. In 1966 the new 38 took the destination display of the original 13A which read Yardley Wood via Stoney Lane.
There were two new routes in 1967 which carried route numbers 46 and 47 but they went to other parts of the city.
The bus, BON479C (3479) was one of fifty Daimler Fleetlines entering service between 1965 and 1967 surviving with the PTE until the 1978 - 1981 period.
 
What a busy forecourt that was outside the Edward Grey store. Lots of folks alighting and boarding buses and of course those going in and out of the store.
GOE 636 (1636) was a 1947 AEC Regent based on a London RT type bus. This bus lasted in service with BCT until 1966. There were fifteen in total and were always based at Acocks Green. There were differences to the London style, Birmingham decided to keep the raked windscreen, common to post war BCT buses and a peculiarity was the headlights, each a different heights. They were fitted with air brakes and as such became used for experiments with braking systems, cooling systems and exhaust systems. BCT post war buses (1947 - 1954), with half cabs, all had five windows (bays) in the lower deck; these AEC's only had four. All in all they were oddities in the fleet.
The photo can be dated 8th. September, 1962. Actually the modern street light takes it out of the fifties.
 
I remember seeing Harpers buses at Kingtanding Circle.

KGK 738 in Streetly about a mile from it's destination.
HarperStreetly.jpg

KGK 729 on Hednesford Road, Heath Hayes, about 12 miles from Kingstanding.
HarpersHednesfordRdHeathHayes.jpg
Both these buses were ex London Transport.
 
Known as roof box RT's. I never saw Harpers in Birmingham as they did not start their cross boundary running until mid 1965. They were a quite large independent company being taken over by Midland Red in 1974. They had a good reputation with their passengers it is said. They had many ex London buses, some AEC, other Leylands. Although their livery was not outstanding, compared with BCT and West Bromwich, it was better than the pea soup and custard of Wolverhampton.
 
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Radiorails said:
What a busy forecourt that was outside the Edward Grey store. Lots of folks alighting and boarding buses and of course those going in and out of the store.
GOE 636 (1636) was a 1947 AEC Regent based on a London RT type bus. This bus lasted in service with BCT until 1966. There were fifteen in total and were always based at Acocks Green. There were differences to the London style, Birmingham decided to keep the raked windscreen, common to post war BCT buses and a peculiarity was the headlights, each a different heights. They were fitted with air brakes and as such became used for experiments with braking systems, cooling systems and exhaust systems. BCT post war buses (1947 - 1954), with half cabs, all had five windows (bays) in the lower deck; these AEC's only had four. All in all they were oddities in the fleet.
The photo can be dated 8th. September, 1962. Actually the modern street light takes it out of the fifties.
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Was one of the other oddities about these buses that their windows were not standard BCT size and this accounts for the odd look of the window behind the drivers cab. The original was broken and BCT standard fitted with a filler piece.
Bob
 
Radiorails said:
What a busy forecourt that was outside the Edward Grey store. Lots of folks alighting and boarding buses and of course those going in and out of the store.
GOE 636 (1636) was a 1947 AEC Regent based on a London RT type bus. This bus lasted in service with BCT until 1966. There were fifteen in total and were always based at Acocks Green. There were differences to the London style, Birmingham decided to keep the raked windscreen, common to post war BCT buses and a peculiarity was the headlights, each a different heights.
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Hi Radiorails. Any reason why the headlights were at different heights? The number 32 bus from Greys would have taken me back to Hall Green Parade. Can confirm that the photo was taken on Saturday 8th September 1962. Dave.
 
Not sure about the position of headlights FarmerDave. Reference to the two ex London buses in posts 1433 show them at a lower level than most BCT buses. Possibly the nearside light height conformed more to BCT specifications but due to the design (maybe the cab interiors?) of the buses, the offside was lower than usual. Those who love them speak highly of them, but I personally found them quaint - almost old fashioned in their appearance. The London RT and RTL (Leyland engines) buses looked good but the BCT raked windscreen did not enhance the design in my view.
 
Lloyd said:
Interior views of the BCT 'RT' buses, 1631 in this case.

View attachment 128985View attachment 128986View attachment 128987View attachment 128988
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BCT were so thoughtful with the match strikers on the back of the seats. Of course the Bristols that ran for the BET companies, they had stubbers on the back of the seats. Superb interior views, always thought the wood effect above the vents looked a little strange. Used to love to be in the seat behind the driver when he left the sliding rear cab window open.
Bob
 
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