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Bertram Thomas Williams Royal Warks..

Astoness

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi folks anyone help rchs who is a new member...this is rons enquiry..thanks folks

I am new to the forum and not sure if im doing this right, but i wonder if you can help me. I was lucky enough to receive a somme 100 poppy pin dedicated to a soldier who died on the 1st day of the Somme. He was Bertram Thomas Williams attached to 1/6th Royal Warwickshires, I know he was born in Birmingham in 1893. Have you any information on that battalion and where they were formed and where they fought on that terrible day in 1916. I feel humble and proud to have that pin and want to find out more about him and his battalion, thanks Ron
 
War diaries for 1/6th Battn are on Ancestry. The record I can see goes from March 1915 when they embarked on 23rd March. This one ends in October 1917. The record for 1st July begins at 7.40 am at Mailly. It talks about heavy casualties (80) before crossing our own lines. It estimates 120 casualties killed or missing and 316 wounded. The line I found sad was "the few remaining men were sent back". Some units reached Serre and it is there that Bertram is listed in Serre Road Cemetery No. 2

Janice
 
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pjmburns said:
War diaries for 1/6th Battn are on Ancestry. The record I can see goes from March 1915 when they embarked on 23rd March. This one ends in October 1917. The record for 1st July begins at 7.40 am at Mailly. It talks about heavy casualties (80) before crossing our own lines. It estimates 120 casualties killed or missing and 316 wounded. The line I found sad was "the few remaining men were sent back". Some units reached Serre and it is there that Bertram is listed in Serre Road Cemetery No. 2

Janice
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thanks Janice, I would like to try and build a picture of his life before and up to that fateful day so ancestry looks like a good place to start. It appears that those men had a really tough objective and suffered for it.
 
I have found his name on the record of "soldiers effects" - £5 16s and 11d + war gratuity of £11 10s (paid in 1919) went to Miss Myra Brown (not sure who she was - perhaps a fiancee?). It also tells me he was a sergeant.
I can't find him at the moment on the censuses.

If you google 1/6th battalion Royal warwicks you will get several sites with info on their action in WW1.
Janice
 
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hi ron further to the info janice has found i have found bertrams medal card on ancestry..it looks as though his service records did not survive the bombings of ww2 (so many did not) but i will double check for you later on...

lyn

30850_A001686-00026.jpg
 
this is where bertram is buried..

Rank:
Private
Service No:
1227
Date of Death:
01/07/1916
Regiment/Service:
Royal Warwickshire Regiment
1st/6th Bn.
Grave Reference:
I. H. 48.
Cemetery:
SERRE ROAD CEMETERY No.2
 
ron i have also found his entry of burial so it looks like he does have an actual grave unlike so many who did not...ron keep scrolling down as there is another entry...its a pity it does not give his parents names because as yet i cant find him on the 1901 or the 1911 census..it is however possible that on the census the name of bertram was dropped..i will also check the british newspaper archives as there maybe a note of his death in those

lyn

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I did not find his war records either and I couldn't find him on the censuses but did wonder if he was known as either Bert or perhaps Thomas. I was interested that the war gratuity did not go to his parents - perhaps they had died by then?
Janice
 
Thank you all so much, I have so much info in such a short time, its enabling me to build a person out of just a name. thanks, Ron
 
most welcome ron but we have not finished yet...we love solving mysteries and helping out on this forum...janice myra could have been his married sister..ive looked for bertrams baptism as that would have given us his parents names but no luck there..will plod on and check the newspapers

lyn
 
Lyn - it says Miss Myra Brown on the soldier's effects page. I found a possible birth registration but that would mean buying the certificate to find his parents names.

Janice
 

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is this the birth you found janice..
bertram thomas williams..b birmingham 1893 ref 6D 82

the plot thickens..i wonder who miss brown was then...usually effects go to the wife or parents...:rolleyes:
 
Yes - Lyn. I did find a Myra Brown (bit older than him but a possibility) on one of the censuses - but, obviously, no clear connection. Pity his records aren't there!
Janice
 
Afternoon Lyn - sorry have been out. The Myra Brown I found would have been 5 years older but that is not an impossibility. She was living at 259 Mary Vale Road on the 1911 census and aged 24. Her Mother was Fanny - no Father in 1911. On 1901 Father listed as James and the address was, what looks like, Rupert Street. Found her baptism record - it was Rupert Street and James was a policeman.

Janice
 
pjmburns said:
Afternoon Lyn - sorry have been out. The Myra Brown I found would have been 5 years older but that is not an impossibility. She was living at 259 Mary Vale Road on the 1911 census and aged 24. Her Mother was Fanny - no Father in 1911. On 1901 Father listed as James and the address was, what looks like, Rupert Street. Found her baptism record - it was Rupert Street and James was a policeman.

Janice
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Hi All,

I am fairly sure that all servicemen were required to provide details of where their effects should go in the event of their being killed in action. Most, of course, would name their parents or siblings but, if Myra Brown was special to Bertram, he may well have named her

Chris Beresford (Old Boy)
 
hi Janice and Lyn, apparently the 1/6th warwickshires were on Redan Ridge their objective was Pendant Copse via Heidenkopf redoubt (british called it the quadrilateral) The following morning at roll call of the 850 men of the regiment that started the previous day only 95 answered their names of these only 25 weren't wounded. Bloody madness!!!!!! I have ordered a birth cert from the info you gave when i get it I will post the result. thanks again
 
rchs said:
hi Janice and Lyn, apparently the 1/6th warwickshires were on Redan Ridge their objective was Pendant Copse via Heidenkopf redoubt (british called it the quadrilateral) The following morning at roll call of the 850 men of the regiment that started the previous day only 95 answered their names of these only 25 weren't wounded. Bloody madness!!!!!! I have ordered a birth cert from the info you gave when i get it I will post the result. thanks again
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hi ron will be very interesting to find out who bertrams parents were...look forward to your findings..

lyn
 
rchs said:
hi Janice and Lyn, apparently the 1/6th warwickshires were on Redan Ridge their objective was Pendant Copse via Heidenkopf redoubt (british called it the quadrilateral) The following morning at roll call of the 850 men of the regiment that started the previous day only 95 answered their names of these only 25 weren't wounded. Bloody madness!!!!!! I have ordered a birth cert from the info you gave when i get it I will post the result. thanks again
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hi ron will be very interesting to find out who bertrams parents were...look forward to your findings..

lyn
 
Hi Lyn, got bertrams birth cert, born on 15th July 1893 St Martin Birmingham.
Name... Bertram Thomas
Father... Walter Williams a Boot riveter
Mother.. Clara Williams formerly Pointing
Residence..6, Court, Wrentham Street.
Its a starting point to hopefully finding out a bit more,
Ron
 
Something weird is going on - there is a Bertie T Williams on the 1891 census at that address. I wonder if that baby died and they named a later baby with the same name (I know it happened). It needs more investigation.
Janice
 
thanks for the info on the birth cert ron...as janice has said a bit more research is now needed but it is a good start...

lyn
 
I am fairly certain this is the same family in 1891. On the 1911 census it says there have been 11 children and 3 have died. The address in 1891 is 5 ct 6 Wrentham Street. The next task is to try to find out about baby Bert - did he die and a subsequent baby was given the same name or what? The family minus Walter are still in Wrentham Street in 1901. I think Walter is elsewhere listed as a publican but cannot be sure. I am now going to check the children.
Janice
 

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Not getting far with children but I have traced a Walter - he was at 148 Stoney Lane for a long time. Listed in Kelly's directories as a boot repairer from 1908 (first time I found the name) until 1938 (last one online). Also found an entry on 1918 electoral roll as a Sergeant Saddler in RFA number 835017 - he was a bit old but perhaps they needed his skills - don't think he served overseas as card lists Shoeburyness. Walter was discharged with Silver war Medal (to show he had served) from 1908 to 1918. 1935 electoral roll has Walter Williams and Elsie Pointing.
Clara seems to have been alive until 1933 - have found her on electoral roll until 1930 - there are only certain years online.
Janice
 
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pjmburns said:
Something weird is going on - there is a Bertie T Williams on the 1891 census at that address. I wonder if that baby died and they named a later baby with the same name (I know it happened). It needs more investigation.
Janice
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hi janice just looked at the 1891 and it could be a bertie aged 1 week but im not sure...but on the 1901 there definately a bertie aged 8 which is our bertram..as you say clara is alone on the 1901..i also found a walter down as publican but cant be sure yet that that is he..

lyn
 
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It was transcribed as Bertie, unless it was a similar name (like Gertie?). Just realised it is in the male column so can't be Gertie!!
I found that Walter as well - rather puzzling as he is boot repairer or maker on 1911 and 1891 censuses. I did wonder if the Walter whose war record I found was the son. Will continue to dig but difficult to trace children when there seem to be no baptisms.
Janice
 
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I have just checked birth records for 1891 and wonder if the Bertie was short for Robert rather than the later Bertram. Perhaps the 1891 one died. Will need to check.
Janice
 
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