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Before Corporation Street

  • Thread starter Thread starter O.C.
  • Start date Start date
From the same book:
"Ashley passage formerley the Gullet, it was developed in 1882-3, and renamed Ashley Passage.In 1838 when the Ditch became the Gullet, its full name was Ashley Gullet, so called after a local landowner. Gradually the name fell into disuse, only to be resurrected with the redevelopment of the passage. Aston University now occupies the site".

I have not got a date on this book, so probably all has changed, considering the post about the Gullet which said it was destroyed in the 1880's.

"The Ditch ran parellel to Stafford Street. Its origin is obscure. It may just have been a field ditch, or possibly an earlier parish boundary between Aston and Birmingham. The Ditch was later paved and renamed The Gullet".
:flower: :cat:
 
It's amazing what we can find out when we put our heads together. It may not be important but it's very satisfying, and I think it's very interesting. Pats on the back all round.
Peter
 
:angel: It's importan to the likes of you and me Peter and that's all that matters.
Thanx to you all I have so much more history of Brum than I ever thought I'd get.

Chris :angel:
 
I think it's good that the history of Brum is being re told here. Thanks to you all for all the 'digging' you've done. O0
 
Decided not to redraw map but to show original and my additions
All the photos I have put on up to this point show this Gullet
Second map I have overlaid in yellow the Gullet
Third Map shows Gullet on a map 1883 the only one I have seen on a map apart from the above
The three maps , lost in a crash, have been replaced
%20Gullet%20map.jpg 1839%20Area%20of%20The%20Gullet.jpg Demolition%20of%20Gullet%20xx.jpg
 
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loisand said:
From the same book:
"Ashley passage formerly the Gullet, it was developed in 1882-3, and renamed Ashley Passage.In 1838 when the Ditch became the Gullet, its full name was Ashley Gullet, so called after a local landowner. Gradually the name fell into disuse, only to be resurrected with the redevelopment of the passage. Aston University now occupies the site".

I have not got a date on this book, so probably all has changed, considering the post about the Gullet which said it was destroyed in the 1880's.

"The Ditch ran parallel to Stafford Street. Its origin is obscure. It may just have been a field ditch, or possibly an earlier parish boundary between Aston and Birmingham. The Ditch was later paved and renamed The Gullet".
:flower: :cat:
Click to expand...

Ashley Passage is not the Gullet In Stafford St  it was the one way over the road by Aston Uni. and was still their in the 50's as in the book you are talking about their is a photograph with a car, bike and children standing in Ashley Passage which can date the photo (book was published 1986)
Loisand I still think that some of the info on the Gullet is wrong as I cannot place the entrance now under the Law Courts I also think that some of the other info from books is wrong
There were roads between Stafford St and Aston Uni (or the fire station) so it could not possibly be one long Gullet
So I will have to pay Mr Map a visit and get this sorted
The Photo below was taken in the Gullet  by Burgoyne with his back to the Anchor Tavern
 
Well Cromwell we have just learnt a lesson, TRUST BOOKS TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. If you need a job doing we may as well do it ourselves. Don't worry we will get it sorted between us, enjoy your visit to Mr Map. ??? ??? ??? ???
:flower: :cat:
 
Loisand, Got the whole Gullet sorted and I understand it a lot more now
Info in the last post is right and wrong
Here is the truth of the matter
The Ditch which ran parallel to Stafford St was probably a field ditch or an old parish boundary which was filled in and built over and the long narrow passage was called The Gullet
The Triangle known as the Gullet was in 1839 bordering these three streets Lichfield St. (now Corporation St)Stafford St and Thomas St. which was a notorious Red Light District which disappeared under the Chamberlain redevelopment's in the 1870s
After the redevelopment in 1882-3 the planners kept to the line of the Gullet and renamed the passage way Ashley Passage (Its also being called Ashley Gullet)
The First map shows the Gullet in 1839(area of the Gullet in Yellow)
Second map shows the area being redeveloped (Gullet in Yellow) note Silver Street the smallest street in Birmingham.
The Third map shows Ashley Place 1905 (Split by a road) one long passage
The only Street to keep its name and line was Stafford St
The Forth Map shows were the Gullet-Ashley Place once was (Red Triangle) in is under the dual carriageway

Maps lost but replaced by copies of originals
1839%20Area%20of%20The%20Gullet.jpg Demolition%20of%20Gullet%20xx.jpg Ashley%20Passage%201905.jpg Ashley%20-Gullet%202006%20x.jpg
 
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Cromwell thanks for posting the above maps, my great grandparents lived at 4 Silver Street in 1858 according to a copy birth certificate I have of their daughter Sarah Ann Daley, and at No.1 in 1861 and were at No.2 on the 1871 census, so if it was the smallest street in Birmingham at the time, they must have lived in most of the houses in that period. Does anyone have a photo of Silver Street they could post please.
 
Sylvia I should have said Silver Street was just 26 feet long and linked Ashley Passage up with Dalton Street and it was all demolished in the 1960's
 
Just had another look at the third map, it shows Chapel Street, the Daleys were living there in 1881, I don't know how big the house was but there were 23 people living there, my g.grandparents, six of their children, and 15 boarders.  Next door at nos.28 and 29 Chapel Street is listed a Bottle Warehouse.
 
Cromwell. delayed reaction I know, but it has just struck me Silver Street only 26 ft. long, about 2 ft longer than my lounge, and at least 4 houses there, how dreadful it must have been bringing up large families cheek by jowl like that.
 
Loisand, we cannot see the wood for the trees, we both have this map but I have only just spotted
THE DITCH

The%20Ditch%20x.jpg
 
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This business is really fascinating, like a detective story unravelling, but it was real life for some people less fortunate than ourselves.
Peter.
 
Well I'll be jiggered Cromwell, I didn't see it cause it's still on my floppy, haven't had time to print of yet, I must get abit more organised :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
:flower: :cat:
 
Put a smaller pic on,in Repy 21 to show you a better view of the same pic
 
Cromwell....the word "gullet"....was it pronounced as gul-let, sort of like two words
or was it pronounced gullie? The right of way beside our house leading down from Hidson Road to Ransom Road off Marsh Hill was always called the "gullie" or goolie with a stronger Brum accent. As in "I am going down the gullie or goolie". I never knew that area as anything else and am thinking the word may have it's origins in the city. Thanks if you happen to know.

The gullie consisted of a narrow track at both ends opening into the street enough for one car to pass through into rear garages, then it opened out into an open field space which became smaller over the years as some people purchased the "left over" land at the bottom of their properties to add to their gardens. It was a place of adventure for the local boys and, of course, the annual Guy Fawkes celebrations. It was rather steep as Hidson Road and Woolmore Road are both hills and the gardens of one side of each street backed on to the gullie. These days the entrances to the gullie or goolie are protected by high ugly metal gates that are locked to all except keyholders. :tickedoff:
 
this a part map of Birmingham 1553 I have marked the area with red dots this is roughly in the area of the ditch on 1731 I will leave it at this size and reduce it after I think you have copied it
it's called Butter or Buttes ditch

birmingham 1553.jpg
 
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Thats a great map John in both of the two maps you can pinpont the positions with Welsh Cross at the end of the street. Thats the furthest back we have gone, Well Done !
(I have took a copy  O0 )
 
Your not the only one Cromwell, hope John don't mind, cause guess what :smiley6600: :smiley6600:
there was a mill on it, right down the bottom
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Also known as "The Malt Mill" and "Moat Mill", William Askerick and his 2nd wife Mary were tenants in 1575, before that Elizabeth Birmingham held the mill, mill disappeared early 19th century to make way for Smithfield Market.
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Thanks John, I have copied it, I couldn't quite make the name out, so will print it off and have a look, a big thankyou
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That 1553 map is fascinating, John. You can see the watercourse which later became known as the Ditch and then, after it was culverted in, the line of the Gullet or Ashley Passage, while the future course of Stafford Street ran to the east on dry land. Most of these old ditches were culverted, in those days in brickwork of course. If the culvert wasn't big enough of course, in a storm the water would overflow and run over ground.
Thank you John.
Peter
 
John, just for you, Heath Mill was also known as Coopers Mill, Woodeys Mill, and Deritend Forge, in the year of the map it was held by John Prattie, under a lease said to have been made to him by Edward Birmingham.
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Gullets

Reply to Oisin.I think the little alleyway by your house would be called a gulley. I walk all over Brum looking for these and there are quite a lot I found one in Grange Road in Erdington last week and there is one from Talbot Street to Musgrave Road which was opposite our house.I wonder if they were old rights-of-way that had to be kept open when they started all the new building of the houses?
 
BobS, there was a gulley between Burlington Street and Barton Street, Aston, just about the bend in the road, we used it often as when you got to Barton Street you had a short cut into Park Lane. I expect it was lost when the area was redeveloped in the 1960s.
 
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