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Anyone fancy sharpening their search skills?

RichSmith

RichSmith

knowlegable brummie
Hi gang, 28 years after starting this crazy hobby and I'm still having problems searching for my great grandads siblings.

On the surface it looks pretty simple enough task despite the Smith surname... find out what happened to his brothers.

When I started this search in the late 90's My father had no idea who his grandparents were. In that time I've found quite a few of them and uncovered family that had lost touch over the years.

What I still haven't been able to uncover properly is a mystery that I read about in his military service records. In amongst them was a letter he wrote to the War Office whilst on furlough leave in 1916 where he asks if he can stay in Birmingham due to his worsening illness (he caught rheumatic fever in mesopotamia whilst with 9th Worcs)

He also mentions that in 1916 his mother and five brothers have all died. This is the main problem I'm experiencing because although i have them between 1891 and 1901 i begin to lose his siblings immediately after this and cant positively ID them afterwards, not in censuses, not in marriage, not in civil or military deaths, if i find a similar name in records after 1901 it doesn't have the right birth year. Cant find any military deaths other Walter.

Just wondering if anyone can help me to solve this mystery whether he was embellishing things or whether he was telling the truth... Info below if anyone fancies it...

My great grandfather is Ernest Smith b. 10 Jun 1881 m Leaf Ashford 27 Sept 1903 d. 26 Nov 1928

in the 1881 census I have his family at 14 house 20 court Hospital Street, in 1891 I have him at 28 court 14 house Hospital Street and in 1901 he is at 28 court 5 house Hospital Street. Below is his family.

Father: Charles b. 1851 m. 18 Sept 1870 d. 4 Marc 1895 his wife was Hannah Smith nee Blyth b.6 Dec 1852 d. 11 Jul 1916

Family Charles Smith b 1871
Mary Jane Smith b. 1873 is believed to have married William Glynn
Frederick b1875
Harry b. 1877 m. Alice Clarke aug 22 1897 cant find after 1911
Thomas b.1879

Elizabeth b. 1883 appears in 1901 census as Lily
*Walter b. 1885 is believed to have married Elizabeth Riley 1907 and d Sep 1917
Edward b 1887 (called Edwin in 1881 census)
Arthur b, 1889

Bag of stale monster munch for the winner!!!!!

Seriously I'd be eternally grateful!!!!!!
 
You say "records have the wrong birth year". Back then no one worried too much about their exact year of birth and you often find differences between years on birth records, death records and censuses.
If you can find a day and month that is usually consistent.
I have seen errors within my own family. My Gran born 1891 (I now have her birth certificate) and died 1969. Her gravestone has the age she told her daughters she was - 80. 2 years out.
 
pjmburns said:
You say "records have the wrong birth year". Back then no one worried too much about their exact year of birth and you often find differences between years on birth records, death records and censuses.
If you can find a day and month that is usually consistent.
I have seen errors within my own family. My Gran born 1891 (I now have her birth certificate) and died 1969. Her gravestone has the age she told her daughters she was - 80. 2 years out.
Click to expand...
totally agree jan...ive quoted this many times but on the 1911 census my gt grandparents have 5 children and say they have been married for 10 years..then i found out they only got married in 1910..back in the day many told white lies to save face or simply just did not know their exact date of birth or the enumerator filled in the census forms wrong..sometimes we need to think outside of the box

lyn
 
Quick question
Do you have birth certs for rhe boys?
I ask as sometimes ages on census are incorrect and lead to wrong years being listed for births.
 
Charles appears to be easy. Birth reg. Mar 1872 Bham as Charles Thomas Richard Smith.

Mar. reg. Sep 1893 Aston to Florence Jeanette Jones.

Death reg. Jun 1917 Bham.

Charles and Florence had at least 6 children - Charles, Dorothy, Bertram, Florence Jeanette, Lilly & Frederick.

In 1901 and 1911 he is listed as a Chaser in the jewellery trade.
 
Intriguing possibly for Edwin (reg. as such) Mar qtr 1888 Bham.

There is mention of an Edwin Arthur Smith b 28 Feb 1888 Bham who was a professional footballer.

Can't be certain but it's not unheard of for people to take a second name at a later date or be reg. without it and there doesn't appear to be a more likely candidate for him.
 
There are a number of possibilities for Arthur being in the army on the 1911 censuses but no way to tell if any of them are him.
 
Assuming that Harry did marry Alice Clarke (she is still listed as married) then in both 1921 & 1939 Harry is not with Alice and children.

Their youngest son appears to have been called Edwin.
 
pjmburns said:
Quick question
Do you have birth certs for rhe boys?
I ask as sometimes ages on census are incorrect and lead to wrong years being listed for births.
Click to expand...
i only have birth certificate for Ernest my great grandfather, none of his siblings.
I have Walter's marriage certificate and death certificate (incidentally one of his sons was called Hart which i find an unusual name)
I have Harry's marriage certificate to Alice Clark
I have nothing else for the rest of his siblings because i think i couldnt see the wood for the trees
Most of the family seems to be centred around Hospital Street and its surrounding streets
 
MWS said:
Intriguing possibly for Edwin (reg. as such) Mar qtr 1888 Bham.

There is mention of an Edwin Arthur Smith b 28 Feb 1888 Bham who was a professional footballer.

Can't be certain but it's not unheard of for people to take a second name at a later date or be reg. without it and there doesn't appear to be a more likely candidate for him.
Click to expand...
arthur is certainly a family name
 
pjmburns said:
You say "records have the wrong birth year". Back then no one worried too much about their exact year of birth and you often find differences between years on birth records, death records and censuses.
If you can find a day and month that is usually consistent.
I have seen errors within my own family. My Gran born 1891 (I now have her birth certificate) and died 1969. Her gravestone has the age she told her daughters she was - 80. 2 years out.
Click to expand...
its not just birth years but little inconsistences which make it a difficult 'leap of faith' believe me im a champion leaper!!!
 
As it appears that Frederick married Elizabeth Grant then it is likely that Frederick died in 1911, reg. Mar qtr Aston.

Elizabeth is listed as widow in the household of her widowed brother in law (William Brown) and two daughters.
 
MWS said:
As it appears that Frederick married Elizabeth Grant then it is likely that Frederick died in 1911, reg. Mar qtr Aston.

Elizabeth is listed as widow in the household of her widowed brother in law (William Brown) and two daughters.
Click to expand...
that's really sad and possibly why i couldn't find him in 1911 census
 
These are the birth registrations for the children with their registered names...

Charles Thomas Richard Mar 1872 - Jun 1917
Mary Jane Dec 1873
Frederick Mar 1876 - Mar 1911
James (Harry) Mar 1878
Thomas George Mar 1880
Ernest Sep 1881
Lily Dec 1883
Walter Dec 1885
Edwin Mar 1888
Arthur Mar 1890
William Jun 1893

Why Harry was registered as James (years correspond) I don't know and I assume William died young.

Frederick, Henry (Harry/James), Walter & Ernest all appear to have been baptised on the same day 19th Apr 1886.
 
MWS said:
These are the birth registrations for the children with their registered names...

Charles Thomas Richard Mar 1872 - Jun 1917
Mary Jane Dec 1873
Frederick Mar 1876 - Mar 1911
James (Harry) Mar 1878
Thomas George Mar 1880
Ernest Sep 1881
Lily Dec 1883
Walter Dec 1885
Edwin Mar 1888
Arthur Mar 1890
William Jun 1893

Why Harry was registered as James (years correspond) I don't know and I assume William died young.

Frederick, Henry (Harry/James), Walter & Ernest all appear to have been baptised on the same day 19th Apr 1886.
Click to expand...
And I wonder why i cant find them!!!

Harry being registered as James and baptised as Henry.... why?

I had no records of Charles having middle names.... thomas is their grandfather but richard? no idea other than thats my name!!!!!

When does the mothers surname appear on birth records? later than 1880 isnt it?
 
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