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Aeroplane Crash - Oval Road, Gravelly Hill - 1916

RFCHistory

RFCHistory

proper brummie kid
On Sunday 14th May 1916 a training aircraft, almost certainly from the Royal Flying Corps aerodrome at Castle Bromwich, got into difficulties and came down in the back garden of a house on Oval Road, Gravelly Hill. While neither occupant was hurt, a greenhouse was demolished and the aircraft wrecked. It would have been quite an event at the time and while I doubt whether there are any 115-120 year old local residents around to recall the event, I wonder whether anything has passed down through local family folklore and whether anyone had a camera?
 
Well, that sounds like one of those story’s that could endure. I have this memory of seeing a photo of an event near Gravelly hill, but it’s quite vague. In 1916 flying was still in its infancy and there were a lot of mishaps. I recently was able to help a history group in Netherseal who had a similar story. Here I had met an old guys whose brother built himself an aeroplane in the adjacent village of Overseal. The brother ended up crashing it and injuring himself in the process.
 
Ah! You got me. 'Twas the Erdington News that my story came from. Accidents were a frequent occurrence, many of them fatal. Later in the war the minor accidents were hardly newsworthy.
 
Morturn said:
Well, that sounds like one of those story’s that could endure. I have this memory of seeing a photo of an event near Gravelly hill, but it’s quite vague. In 1916 flying was still in its infancy and there were a lot of mishaps. I recently was able to help a history group in Netherseal who had a similar story. Here I had met an old guys whose brother built himself an aeroplane in the adjacent village of Overseal. The brother ended up crashing it and injuring himself in the process.
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Home built aircraft were very much in vogue between the wars, mainly to proprietary designs such as the Pou du Ciel. In fact it's never really gone out of fashion and continues today under the control of the Popular Flying Association. I'd wager that there's a handful taking shape right now in sheds and garages around Birmingham!!
 
RFCHistory said:
Ah! You got me. 'Twas the Erdington News that my story came from. Accidents were a frequent occurrence, many of them fatal. Later in the war the minor accidents were hardly newsworthy.
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My grandfather who by coincidence lived just off Gravelly Hill was a WWI flight engineer and pilot. He also said that there were a lot of flying accidents then; said he witnessed a fatality a week. He had a couple of close calls and did a couple of forced landing where he had to hedgehop while landing in fields. He had a scar across his head when hit by the prop starting the engine.
 
Morturn said:
My grandfather who by coincidence lived just off Gravelly Hill was a WWI flight engineer and pilot. He also said that there were a lot of flying accidents then; said he witnessed a fatality a week. He had a couple of close calls and did a couple of forced landing where he had to hedgehop while landing in fields. He had a scar across his head when hit by the prop starting the engine.
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1/AM, 2/AM, Cpl. and Sgt. pilots were a regular feature at Castle Brom. to the confusion of some researchers who assume that the "officer" was the pilot in Cas. Cards and pilot's flying logbooks. Who was your granddad and where was he serving?
 
RFCHistory said:
1/AM, 2/AM, Cpl. and Sgt. pilots were a regular feature at Castle Brom. to the confusion of some researchers who assume that the "officer" was the pilot in Cas. Cards and pilot's flying logbooks. Who was your granddad and where was he serving?
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Unfortunately, he was not the best conversationalist with kids, we were here to be seen and not heard, so I never really had much in the way of meaningful conversations with him. A lot of what I know about him is anecdotal from my own father. There were photos of him in an RAC uniform, but when he dies my grandmother destroyed all of his memorabilia
 
Morturn said:
Unfortunately, he was not the best conversationalist with kids, we were here to be seen and not heard, so I never really had much in the way of meaningful conversations with him. A lot of what I know about him is anecdotal from my own father. There were photos of him in an RAC uniform, but when he dies my grandmother destroyed all of his memorabilia
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And his full name was?
 
My grandad was in the Royal Flying Corps but, although he was a Brummie, he was based at Hendon.
He wasn't a flyer though, I think he was doing something in the engineering line as that was his trade.
My nephew has his RFC cane which has a metal knob with the insignia on the top end.
 
A Sparks said:
My grandad was in the Royal Flying Corps but, although he was a Brummie, he was based at Hendon.
He wasn't a flyer though, I think he was doing something in the engineering line as that was his trade.
My nephew has his RFC cane which has a metal knob with the insignia on the top end.
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Ah, the "swagger stick". You weren't properly dressed without one!! A nice thing to have. Do you have a full name? Date of birth? RFC Service Number?
 
RFCHistory said:
Ah, the "swagger stick". You weren't properly dressed without one!! A nice thing to have. Do you have a full name? Date of birth? RFC Service Number?
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I don't have all his details offhand, his name was Charles Spencer and his home address was in the Aston area of Birmingham.
I guess he would have been born in the 1890s.
Correct that, more like 1880s or late 1870s I believe.
 
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RFCHistory said:
58903 Charles Spencer b.1884. Address: 65, Upper Sutton Street, Aston. Was with No.2 Aircraft Acceptance Park in 1918 - which was indeed at Hendon. A window cleaner in civilian life, the RAF employed him as a Labourer. Sound possible?
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Thank you! It could be him, although I think he did work in 'engineering' at some point it would have been fairly basic.
I know he did any kind of work he could find during the depression era in the 30s.
 
Unless he had a middle name the options are limited. There's one other brummie Charles Spencer, but he lived in Deritend and was not serving at Hendon.
For any man with a limited "skill-set" the depression years were hard indeed. I don't think my generation (i'm 73) has any idea how hard?
 
RFCHistory said:
Unless he had a middle name the options are limited. There's one other brummie Charles Spencer, but he lived in Deritend and was not serving at Hendon.
For any man with a limited "skill-set" the depression years were hard indeed. I don't think my generation (i'm 73) has any idea how hard?
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No, that wouldn't be him, Dad's family were definitely Aston people!
 
RFCHistory said:
58903 Charles Spencer b.1884. Address: 65, Upper Sutton Street, Aston. Was with No.2 Aircraft Acceptance Park in 1918 - which was indeed at Hendon. A window cleaner in civilian life, the RAF employed him as a Labourer. Sound possible?
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He is on 1921 census at that address with wife Esther and 4 daughters - Edith, Hilda, Ethel Violet. This might help confirm or otherwise.
He is a window cleaner at Dunlop.
 
pjmburns said:
He is on 1921 census at that address with wife Esther and 4 daughters - Edith, Hilda, Ethel Violet. This might help confirm or otherwise.
He is a window cleaner at Dunlop.
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Yes indeed, that's our man. Plenty of windows at the Fort!! I guess some people might be disappointed to find a family antecedent serving in a relatively humble role but the reality was that no pilot would ever have got airborne without the sustained efforts of men doing humdrum work behind the scenes. With the Royal Flying Corps the ratio was around 50 other ranks to every pilot that flew - quite astonishing really.
 
RFCHistory said:
Yes indeed, that's our man. Plenty of windows at the Fort!! I guess some people might be disappointed to find a family antecedent serving in a relatively humble role but the reality was that no pilot would ever have got airborne without the sustained efforts of men doing humdrum work behind the scenes. With the Royal Flying Corps the ratio was around 50 other ranks to every pilot that flew - quite astonishing really.
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Yes but we need A Sparks to confirm that is his relative.
I thought he might recognise the other names.
 
pjmburns said:
He is on 1921 census at that address with wife Esther and 4 daughters - Edith, Hilda, Ethel Violet. This might help confirm or otherwise.
He is a window cleaner at Dunlop.
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Thanks so much, that's brilliant!
Yes, they were my Aunties, my Dad was the last in the family, born 1925.
My grandma's name was Esther, both of my grandparents died before I was two so I don't really remember them.
 
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