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Address number conversion Stirchley

Mike Fisher

Mike Fisher

Billesley Boy
Hi All

What number Pershore Rd is 113 Stirchley St, Stirchley, Kings Norton after it came into Birmingham ?
(Curnock & Son Green grocers)
 
I'm not very good at this sort of thing, so forgive me if I get it wrong. Stirchley Street was the old name for Stirchley, and the part of Pershore Road that ran though it is now called Hazlewell Street. As far as I can work it out the number you are looking for would have been somewhere around 1316 Pershore Rd which was near the junction of Hazlewell Lane.

Perhaps Mike might check this out as I'm surprised he hasn't said anything on this so far, I'm sure he will soon put you right if I have gotten it wrong.
 
I seem to have missed the original post for soem reason. the numbering of what is now Pershore Road is a bit complicated. i have compiled a spreadsheet from directories electoral rolls and some entries from the 1901 census, but even so a few addresses are not clear. This one , however is ok. 113 Stirchley st, was Curnock and son (or earlier Curnock Brothers), greengrocers till about 1905. By 1908 it had become Frank Moseley , greengrocer and the address was 289 Pershore Road, Stirchley (there were several Pershore roads at that date, each with separate numbering). By 1912 it was George Bliss, greengrocer, in 1913 Mrs Agnes Woodward, greengrocer, and by 1915 thomas edwards greengrocer. It was still Thomas Edwards in 1921, but number had changed to 1498 Pershore Road,. this is now converted to a private house, according to streetview, between KJC Accountants and Sirchley carpets, with number clearly on the door
 
You've got a typo there nick. you mean 1498. I hadn't checked to see how long the Edwards greengrocery shop went on for. Obviously a long time. they were still there in 1973
 
Mike
As I said, i have put together a database on an excel spreadsheet of the road that became Pershore road. Frank mitchell is in Kellys if you look at him in the commercial names list , but it does not come under Birmingham at that time but under Kings norton , who are listed separately , but not by road, only by name in the "suburbs" section. However i have gone through all these separate sections and filled in the site on the spreadsheet for the Kellys I have from 1900 to 1921. (and with a lot of electoral rolls and some census results as well), therefore I can go to the spreadsheet and read across from 1900 - 1921. As I implied there are some problems with the ten acres/stirchley area as I have found it difficult to compare all the addresses. In fact I haven't done anything on the spreadsheet for a while and ought to add in more census results. I will when I've got the time !! hope that makes it reasonably clear
mike
 
Mike

I came to my conclusions going by numbers alone, 1913 Kelly's puts 105-107 Pershore Rd near the junction of Hazlewell Lane. that puts 113 three premises further up the road. After the number changes 105-107 change to 1308 - 1310, so adding the same three premises makes the new number for 113 now 1316. Would that not be right?
 
Hi Phil and mike
I do not know how you worked your numbers out or where you got them but last night I was recalling in my head about the number of fruit and veg
Stores was in the village as it would have been classed by the older generation Of time gone bye
I am very familiar with the stirchley and Shelly park area and its occupants for many years back in time

when I Seen your request mike the very shop of fruit and veg would have been the one with the numbers on as Phil said
And to the fact that the actual green grocers was a large premises which was two doors from the haze well lane and it actually took the very
Corner of haze well lane as well that's where the three numbers fall in and this very old couple was there for many ,many years
They was still working in a ripe old age passed there retirement age as well they was a lovely old couple and everybody knew them
And they was very busy in those days
I calculated how many green grocery there was on that strip there was only two others and they was young and middle age family's
There is a guy down there now whom been there for at least forty years as I recall him setting up in business
He his an wholesaler of fruit and veg now and of plants but when stated he only done bag spuds only
Just like said clegg at spring hill when he started a spud shop there the other shop did not survive
But the ones you are on about was there for decades be.five me I do not know how they had the strength to carry on for as long
As they did they did have helpers I believe it was part of there family
So to me it tots up what Phil as said I know quite area of the Shelly park residence old and very old one even today
So I am sure if I spoke with them they would remember them
These premises would be at a quick calulateion would be about 400 yards from the old oak pub I would say
But these people would have been the oldest generation on the pitch of stirchley
Best wishes astonian,,,,,Alan,,,,
 
But its not 113 Pershore Road Phil, its 113 Stirchley St in 1905. This then changes to 289 Pershore Road Stirchley with renumbering, which is what it is in the 1913 directory, and it is then renumbered again when the whole road gets one set of numbers. A sort of confirmation is that no 111 Stirchley st is the Stirchley post office under Mrs E Mason., next door to the greengrocers. This then changes to 287 Pershore Road ,Stirchley, and then to 1496 pershore road , alll under the Masons. The paot office is marked on the 1904 and 1916 OS maps close to Mayfield Road.
 
Mike

So where exactly was Stirchley Steet, I though that in the early 1900's all of what we know now as Stichley was then known as Stirchley Street. I'm not disputing what you say, but genuinely would like to know where Stirchley St was as the I might understand better.
 
Phil
That has been a problem. I am not clear if, at this time the main road was called Stirchley Street, or if it was the area. The c1904 map below shows, in pink, the length of Pershore road in which were the addresses labelled Stirchley Street. Kellys seems to either list a business as Stirchley st or a street name, then Stirchley St. I have assumed, and think I am correct in saying if no othe rstreet is listed, then it is on the main road. There is no name on the main road on the map (other than Icknield St Roman Road ), but the area is labelled Stirchley Street. The numbering on the west side shows how far down Pershore road it ran, from no 2 Stirchley St (correponding to 1369 Pershore Road today) just after Hazelwell Road rejoins main road to no 134 Stirchley St (corresponding to 1557 Pershore Road today) before Ashtree Road, and that is what I have used to colour in the road..
I would still like to see the road name written on a map though.

map_c_1904_showing_Stirchley_street.jpg
 
Hi guys
sorry about this bridge note but my battery is running out and I can confirm it that it was first called strurly street
The name was popular with residents and the name was given to the very first school in the area
The name was strutley street branch national school which open end up in1863
So where was this place of education, It was located on stirchley street, now called pershore road. Stircley
Sixteen years later a modern building was built open end up by kings Norton school board
May I just add these two points to you two guys pershore road was oriniginaly before the first world war was known as high street stirchley Birmingham
So it started of as strutley street then changed to stirchley street and finally pershore red
And one more valued point guys if you have or not got a book by Carl chinns book I suggest you read it page 80/81
Page title Stirchley street Stirchley,,, the book you need is Carl Chinn, the streets of Brum. Part 5
It tells you of a couple of shop keepers and the demo history of stichley street from the Saxons years over the two pages
If you cannot get to it I can down load the two nessarry pages of the street you are discussing
I have to shoot off now because my battery is about to die take a look at the page you need in part five book of the streets of brum by chinny
Look forwea
 
Yes Phil, that would agree with the apparent description on the map of the whole area as Stirchley Street. Nevertheless Kellys lists (example below from 1903) addresses as no X Stirchley St, which later were translated into numbers in Pershore Road. This might have been a local abbreviation of Main St , Stirchley, or something similar, and the official designation might still have been Pershore road. I don't really know, but hope to visit the library in Brum sometime soon and try and find a map on which the main street/pershore road is named.

example_of_Stirchley_st_from_1903_Kellys.jpg
 
Yes Mike, there are several numbers on Stirchley Street listed in the 1903 edition of Kelly's even Curnock Brothers at 113, but as you know there is no listing for Stirchley Street in the street listings and as we know there were commercial premises listed it means to me that is was in fact the district and not a thoroughfare. What we really need is to find where in fact the district started and where it finished, I'm still looking.
 
Phil
But the businesses in Stirchley street are given numbers, and they do not list just numbers in a district, numbers go with a street. You don't say no 5 Cotteridge, its no 5, X Street , Cotteridge. All the numbers listed just no Y Stirchley Street fit in to the length of Pershore road in pink on the map. The reason that Stirchley street is not listed under the street listings is because it was outside the Birmingham area at the time , and thus included in the "suburbs " section, and, at that time, Kellys did not list streets in these suburbs in the street listings. The streets in the area area were not listed in the street secgtion till it became part of Brum in 1911. Have just noticed one interesting little quirk. In the 1908 Kellys the area is still in the suburbs section, and all the stirchley street numbers have been renumbered as part of pershore road, except that with one
address they have renumbered i t(the number is the same as in 1911 only then called pershore road,so it is an error), but still list it as Stirchley St (see below). All the other ones have been renumbered and street renamed. John Farnworth is at the same building from (at least ) 1903 - 1921

kellys_1908_error_pershore_road_called_Stirchley__street.jpg
 
Mike

I agree with all you are saying, but I still find it strange that Stirchley Street is not listed in any edition of a street section of Kelly's or can be found on any map I have seen up to yet. Nor can I find any reference to it as a thoroughfare anywhere except what has been written here.
 
Phil
Other than the addresses in the suburbs section of Kellys I am in complete agreement. I seem to remember there used to be a stirchley history website some time ago (not the present general one that has a few pictures). Unfortunately it doesn't seem to exist any more.
 
As a late edition. following Astonian's post. I had not looked at "Streets of Brum", but on looking at it I found the piece pictured below. Carl states that the school was "on Stirchley Street, now called the Pershore Road". This, to me , shows that Carl thought the same as me, that the locals, at least, considered the road to be called Stirchley Street, though he very possibly had no more definite evidence on this than we do.

from_streets_of_brum_pt_5a.jpg
 
Mike

Please can you convert 1825 Pershore Rd into old money , looking for it in the 1901 census ?

Cotteridge Stores ales & stouts
 
The present 1825 was 142 Pershore Road, Cotteridge, which was Walter & Mary Flavell in the 1901 census. He is not listed in the 1900 Kellys, but is in the 1903 Kellys , as is Mrs Jane Flavell, dressmaker at the same address
 
Hi mike /Phil
I Hope You do not mind me interrupting on your thread again have we reached any agreement on this thread but just reflecting
On An Issue looking at the next page in carl,s book on page 81 and as you know before the first world war it was listed as
The High street stirchley but prior it but previously known as stirchley street then renamed pershore red as of today's name
But getting back to the. Paragraph on page 80. They built the new building of the school which was sixteen years later
And was openend. Up by the kings Norton school board by now the strutley was in decline and was not. Given to the new
Faculty,, instead it was called the stirchley street board school
And what I want to suggest well to me looking at the pi ture on the following page which is 81.
The old high street before the war And Phil mentioned. Hazawell street many years back if you came out of that street
And turned left as if going towards. Cotteridge ,then look at the picture what Carl as put on
And look at the pictures emediately on your left hand side of the picture and in realality you was there in back in time
About one hundred and fifty yards you would have been out side the school gates of what we. Are discussing
And in hose days it would have been stirchley school it was still activated for a school through to the sixtys even thou
The original the building was changed from its purpose as I recall it
Also guys if I have still got your Attention for a moment if you read the first couple of lines of content regarding the picture
Naming names the drapers have only been left about eight years back I think ,but what I also wondered as. A queery was the
Named Johnsons , Walter Johnson,, as I recall in the fifths and sixties right up to the virtually ending of the pershore road trading for bussiness
Was another member of Johnsons took over that said and ajoing premise of Mary Vale rd was BobJohnson
Whom was second fjrtiture and antiques I wondered whether he may have been an sibbling from within there family tree
Just short walking back on the opersite side of the road by the first lamp post on the right hand of the picture
Would have been the big green grocers on the corner ,best wishes Alan,,,astonian,,,,
 
Hi mike I also agree there was about eight years back there was a stirchley site set up but it never really took off
And I would have said entirely it was down to our forum that out shone it and it went down plus I think also due thou did move out from the area as it was flagging
Meaning yet again high street , come what may , pershore red and what started to kill the area was the old yellow lines
Ruining up through the main shopping area to start with and eventually from one end to the lot her of per shore road and up to cotteridge

And as I have said a lot of the older generation died and may I add the flavel family bjrrird in icneild street cemetery Alan,astonian,,,
 
Today 1825 is Cotteridge Wine in 1911 I believe it was 144 Clara Moorfield brewers manager - in 1908 Kelly's it's Clara at 144 .
c 1825a cotteridge stores1.jpgc 1825 cotteridge stores2.jpgc 1825b Capture.JPG
 
Mike
Sorry I should have said that in 1921, and presumably after, 1825 and 1823 were a combined site occupied by Percy Cowley, beer retailer. however in 1915 and before they were two separate addresses with Walter Flavell in 142 and (in 1915) beer retailer Clara Moorfield in 144. So I missed out half the building
 
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