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‘Done Eat’ cafe in Brum 1900

Response to Post 10.
I am trying to obtain birth certificates for both my grandmother Nellie Ward (20.12.1899) Elizabeth Ward (Lizzie) my great grandmother. However despite trying many times I cannot trace anything for either of them on the GRO site.
The only birth that shows for Nellie Ward is with a mother given as ‘Yates’. I can find nothing for Elizabeth especially as I have no maiden name for her mother Martha (Ward and Harris married names).
 
We suspect that Martha was a Ward and all her children before James Harris would have been listed with no mmn, though some don't appear to be registered. There are possible registrations for Beatrice and Elizabeth, the latter possibly June qtr 1881, Aston.

Martha's marriage to John Harris appears to have been late, in 1914 (Sep qtr Aston). This would give her father's name and confirm if she was a Ward or not.
 
On her marriage to Edgar Millard, Nellie's father's name is listed as William, as it is on a US correspondence record. At best this seems to be a bit of a fudge.

On the latter her mother's name is given as a Elizabeth Harris, again a little bit of a fudge.
 
MWS said:
On her marriage to Edgar Millard, Nellie's father's name is listed as William, as it is on a US correspondence record. At best this seems to be a bit of a fudge.

On the latter her mother's name is given as an Elizabeth Harris, again a little bit of a fudge.
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In the US my grandmother would be listed as Nellie Baker presumably as she moved to the the USA and lived in Bar Harbour Maine. She had married Gilbert Baker a good friend of my grandad Edgar James Millard who died sadly in the late 50s.
Nellie and Gilbert moved back to the UK in the late 60s.
She as a baby lived with William Ward and his wife I believe and he was her father figure. Hence her naming him as her father on her marriage certificate possibly.
Her mother Elizabeth Martha’s maiden name was Ward but her stepfather was John Harris. Hence Elizabeth Harris on the documents perhaps ?
 
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I have now been able to order the birth certificates for Martha Elizabeth Ward 1881-1969 (mother’s maiden name Martha Barrow) and for her daughter Nellie Ward 1899-1989.
Many thanks to you all for your kind help.
 
Lozzie said:
I have now been able to order the birth certificates for Martha Elizabeth Ward 1881-1969 (mother’s maiden name Martha Barrow) and for her daughter Nellie Ward 1899-1989.
Many thanks to you all for your kind help.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I think that may be the incorrect person.

In 1891 she is with her family on Grosvenor Road, whilst you said your Elizabeth Ward was in Aston Workhouse in 1891.
 
Isn't the Nellie Ward with William and Elizabeth their own daughter? She is with them in 1901 and 1911 and there is a birth reg with mmn Yates. William Ward married Elizabeth Yates in 1899.

If you think that is your Gran who then is the "Polly" listed as grandaughter with Martha and John Harris on the 1901 census?

I thught this was Nellies birth (reg as Nelly) and with no mmn
1689875086045.png
A January reg ties in with a Dec birth.
 
Yes, that is the most likely birth for Nellie.

The place to start would be Martha's marriage to John Harris, which appears to be Sep qtr 1914 Aston as mentioned. This should give Martha's father's name and confirm if she was a Ward or reveal her maiden name.
 
It would also establish if she was a widow.
Or claimed to be - we all know that not everything on a marriage certvus necessarily true.
 
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I have no idea who Polly is. I have now found Nellie’s birth registration in final quarter of 1899 in Birmingham but on Genes Reunited the mothers maiden name is left blank.
I have researched William Ward and Elizabeth Yates and the GRO that you have shown is for a Nelly Ward with those people as parents. My grandmother said that she didn’t ever live with her own mother but grandparents.
I shall re-investigate whether I have the incorrect Martha Ward too.
Many thanks for your ongoing interest.
 
I don't think the GRO I posted is the one for Nellie daughter of William and Elizabeth. There is a different birth reg for Nellie reg mmn Yates
The dash indicates that the birth was illegitimate so no mmn.
Good luck and let us know what transpires.
 
The 1921 census has Nellie living with her grandparents, John & Martha Harris, on Coventry St. With them are her aunt, Beatrice Ward (who appears not to marry) and uncle, James Harris.

Of all Martha's children there only seems to be a baptism for Beatrice (1902) on Ancestry.
 
pjmburns said:
Isn't the Nellie Ward with William and Elizabeth their own daughter? She is with them in 1901 and 1911 and there is a birth reg with mmn Yates. William Ward married Elizabeth Yates in 1899.

If you think that is your Gran who then is the "Polly" listed as grandaughter with Martha and John Harris on the 1901 census?

I thught this was Nellies birth (reg as Nelly) and with no mmn
View attachment 182091
A January reg ties in with a Dec birth.
Click to expand...
I ha
 
Glad you got the birth cert sorted out.
For the majority of people at that time the only time that addresses were listed was at census time. It was only later when more people got the vote that erolls can be a help. Have you looked who was there on 1901 census? It may be of no help.
 
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MWS said:
It appears to be 1 back 61 Coventry St in 1921. Not sure of the number in 1901, in 1891 John Harris (assuming he's the same one) is at 4 back 64 Coventry St.
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Interesting as the address on the birth cert in post #47 is 4 back of 64.
 
MWS said:
It appears to be 1 back 61 Coventry St in 1921. Not sure of the number in 1901, in 1891 John Harris (assuming he's the same one) is at 4 back 64 Coventry St.
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1901 address is 1 back 59 (could this be the same as 1 back of 61? using the other "front " house)
 
I don't think there was a consistent approach to how back houses were listed over the years. I think Mike said that eventually they were listed as behind the lowest number that the entrance split so more than likely.

pjmburns said:
Interesting as the address on the birth cert in post #47 is 4 back of 64.
Click to expand...

That possibly suggests that John & Martha knew each other before they married which is not unusual for a second marriage (for John).
 
Below is what I am reasonably sure is the numbering on a 1880s map. 71 is on the opposite side of the Trent St junction, and The Malt shovel is no 58, both confirmed. So this seems most likely. that the the Twists buildings are 60-64

ScreenHunter 6843.jpg
 
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