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Mary Williams - (Lived in Witton) Born 1887

C

ckingdom

proper brummie kid
My late great Aunt's mother Mary Williams (Born 1887 - Died 1949) lived on Deykin Avenue (181) Witton. She was widowed in 1939 (shows in records) but cannot find who she was married to and his occupation (no references found, from some searching). Looking for research tips to find further knowledge of the family.
 
hi...do you know anything else about mary..ie names of any children...looking at the 1939 eve of war census there is a blanked out name which could indicate a young child and i was wondering who the other person is that is living there..a jordon mc donnell..could he have been a son from a previous marriage..any extra info may help us..

lyn
 
Hi Lyn, Thanks. Yes, I did notice a (Male) McDonnell born in 1919 in my search (did not see the name Jordan), so I guess he could be from a previous marriage as you've suggested. My Late Aunt (Mary J Kingdom 1923-2024) was Mary's daughter (same forename as her Mum), did not mention any Jordan when living at 181, but she was quite private about certain things.
To Recap Mary Williams (1887 - 1949) had a daughter Mary J Williams, who got Married to Garfield T Kingdom in 1945 (that's my connection).
rgds
Charles
 
ok charles thanks for that info...hopefully some of us will try and work it out for you..we do love mystery..the name is transcribed as jordon but having said that the writing is not very good on the original

lyn
 
Hi findmypast search of 1921 census for the same address, 181 deykin.avenue, shows a mary williams (wife) living there with her husband James Thomas Williams. Both aged 42. Details show James as born St. Just, Cornwall, & Mary born in Ireland (think it says Templemore). James is listed as com.builder, GEC. (Presumably commercial builder?) But out of work. In pencil is written "disabled soldier". Number of children under 18 for them is listed as nil. But that would tie in with your Mary J Williams being born in 1923. The census also shows a Daniel Morrissey (brother in law) aged 51 born in Templemore, so maybe Marys brother/ maiden name? Good luck with your search
 
Maz 60 said:
Hi findmypast search of 1921 census for the same address, 181 deykin.avenue, shows a mary williams (wife) living there with her husband James Thomas Williams. Both aged 42. Details show James as born St. Just, Cornwall, & Mary born in Ireland (think it says Templemore). James is listed as com.builder, GEC. (Presumably commercial builder?) But out of work. In pencil is written "disabled soldier". Number of children under 18 for them is listed as nil. But that would tie in with your Mary J Williams being born in 1923. The census also shows a Daniel Morrissey (brother in law) aged 51 born in Templemore, so maybe Marys brother/ maiden name? Good luck with your search
Click to expand...
If James Thomas Williams is listed as a com builder at GEC (General Electric Company) he would have been employed building commutators for electric motors. The commutator is the end part of the rotor or armature that feeds electrical current to the motor windings.
 
1 other point. 1921 census with Mary aged 42 giving dob 1879 which is out from the 1887 quoted (you do get differences but not usually that large). Where did the 1887 come from? Now know it was 1939 reg
 
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can we be certain about marys death being 1949...if she died in 1949 then the 1955 e rolls must show daughter mary j garfield and hubby living with mother mary williams
 
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I remember my mother, who was born in 1918 in Witton, coming in on a few occasions and telling my father that she had met Mary Williams while she was out. This would be in the 50s and 60s, so possible a daughter ?
 
pjmburns said:
1 other point. 1921 census with Mary aged 42 giving dob 1879 which is out from the 1887 quoted (you do get differences but not usually that large). Where did the 1887 come from? Now know it was 1939 reg
Click to expand...
Hi, A Staff member at the Library printed this off for me and gave me some links to resources but did not get a lot from it, possibly you need some patience, perseverance with the websites, I'm not much of a detective tbh. Looks like 87 but could be 89?
 

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Maz 60 said:
Hi findmypast search of 1921 census for the same address, 181 deykin.avenue, shows a mary williams (wife) living there with her husband James Thomas Williams. Both aged 42. Details show James as born St. Just, Cornwall, & Mary born in Ireland (think it says Templemore). James is listed as com.builder, GEC. (Presumably commercial builder?) But out of work. In pencil is written "disabled soldier". Number of children under 18 for them is listed as nil. But that would tie in with your Mary J Williams being born in 1923. The census also shows a Daniel Morrissey (brother in law) aged 51 born in Templemore, so maybe Marys brother/ maiden name? Good luck with your search
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info.
 
I agree it is 87 on the 1939 but my point was that does not agree with her age on the 1921 census. If she was born in 1887 then in 1921 she would be 34 not 42.
 
pjmburns said:
1955 eroll
View attachment 197450
This does not fit the death date given in post #3 of 1949.

Something is wrong somewhere.
Click to expand...
Hi Janice.
Yes, Maybe I have the year of death wrong for Mary Williams. Not sure how to find that out, I had assumed (she was born in Birmingham) but MAZ's search shows she was born in Ireland.
Rgds
Charles
 
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You could buy the 1949 death cert - a digital image from GRO is £2.50. This should confirm if it is the right person or not.
But as she is on the 1957 eroll but not 1960 then buying the cert may be a waste of money. Trouble is there are quite a number of Mary Williams who died between 1957 and 1960 in Birmingham.
If she was born in Ireland then finding a dob might be tricky.
Getting Mary J's birth cert might be useful - confirm Mary snr maiden name and the Father's name. That is also available as a digital image.
 
Hi All, Many Thanks indeed for your help in my research, I hope to go back to the Library Thursday to see if they can help me on further on my search of Mary Williams. My Late Aunt Mary J Kingdom (Williams) did speak about her Mum Mary (Williams) a lot and about how her faith and religion was very important to her and mentioned her devotion, being a worshiper at the Sacred Heart and Saint Margaret.
Thanks Again.
Charles

However there are questions I still have about my Late Aunt (Mary J Kingdom), do I continue on this Surname Interest Group 'U-W' or Post again on 'I -L'
 
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ckingdom said:
Hi, A Staff member at the Library printed this off for me and gave me some links to resources but did not get a lot from it, possibly you need some patience, perseverance with the websites, I'm not much of a detective tbh. Looks like 87 but could be 89?
Click to expand...

here is the whole of the page for the 39 census...if you compere the number 7 on marys date of birth to the other numbers 7s on the page they are the same so i dont think it could be the number 9...again look at the numbers 9s and they are very distinctive

tna_r39_5488_5488b_014.jpg
 
With Regard to my Great Aunt Mary (Josephine Williams).

I have established she was born 30th November 1923 and lived with her Mum Mary and Father James (new info) at 181 Deykin Avenue (Witton) and looks like the Father died 1930 (aged 50).

But I am interested in Mary J's:

Early life Schools, friends and hobbies (what schools she went to).

I understand she worked at ICI as a 'Stator Winder' I guess this has something to do with motors but I believe she also worked during WW2 possibly in munitions (around 1939).

She used to talk about the American soldiers (GI's) coming over and she did give a real palpable sense of life and times of this era of her early young adult life.

She married Garfield T Kingdom (from Bridgend) in 1945 (at the Sacred Heart & St. Margaret), I'm unsure how they met, I think she told me (you just never think to ask all these questions....) or commit to memory, But I have asked my relations from Wales.

Any research ideas or contextual insights would be gratefully received from 1923 to 1960.

Rgds

Charles
 
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Ah ! My mother went to the Sacred Heart School and was amongst the people who collected funds to build the Sacred Heart Church. At her death she was the oldest parishioner, and would have been married at the Sacred Heart around the same time.
That would be her connection with a Mary Williams ?

When was Mary J Williams born ?
 
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