Edge tool maker

[DennyGirl]

Hi all
I'm researching John Turner his occupation on this son Williams marriage cert 21/10/1861 Parish Church of Handsworth is Brassfounder.I have searched for John Turner on all/Warwick /stafford the censuses and have been lead on many a false trail.The John Turner i am interested in researching has an occupation of Edge tool maker through 1841-1881 censuses.
I read on one of the threads that the occupations on marriage certs are set ones.I am unsure is these occupations are compatable as i have seen both listed on mar cert seperatly before.I have a few IGI Christening records to research to verfiy addresses as this family continued to lived at the same address 1841-1881 the occuption will also be recorded.Would the occupation have be changed only for the marriage cert i just don't know.There was just one other John Turner with a Brass founder occupation in 1841 but have not researched him yet as his age would make him more of a grandadfather which i have also concidered a possiblity.Any Idea's please.
Denny

 

[Alf]

Denny as far as I know a Toolmaker is a Toolmaker and its a skilled trade they train for years.

 

[DennyGirl]

Thanx Alf yes i agree I guess I will have the wrong John Turner again.

 

[barrie]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought that an "edged tool maker" was someone who made various tools with a cutting edge (knives, axes, etc) as opposed to a "toolmaker" which has always been a skilled trade.

One of my Gt Uncles who was killed in WWI was an "edged tool maker" as was his Father and brother. I think you might need to look at them again.

cheers
barrie

 

[GER22VAN]

Edge Tool Makers.

Barry.I quite agree with you, my Great Grandfather was an Edge Tool Maker
and there were various factories in Birmingham that came under this heading.
I have always assumed that he worked for A.F.Parkes & Co in Dartmouth Street. They made various kinds of garden tools being hoes, spades and scythes to name a few and I believe I found them listed somewhere as Edge Tool Makers.

 

[Alf]

Barrie got it.

Toolmaker, one that makes tools; especially : a machinist who specializes in the construction, repair, maintenance, and calibration of the tools, jigs, fixtures, and instruments of a machine shop

Edge Toolmaker, maker of Knives,Scythes - Cutting Tools.

There you are Denny

 

[DennyGirl]

Many thanx for the advise.I'm still not convinced that the occupation Brass Founder would cover the occupation of EdgeTool maker.Although John Turner is not stated deceased in 1861 on Marriage cert. I am unable to find a John Turner in 1841-1881 censuses with Brass Founder as occupation.Oh! there is one in 1841 doesn't match as the couple have no family living with them and wife is a bit old to have a 2-3yr son.i will have to research them before i decided to discount them at this stage.
cheers Denny

 

[33bus]

hi dennygirl sorry to have missed your earlier post but a brassfounder in modern times means the owner of a brass foundry not only dealing in brass but also copper ,bronze brass dresser ,could mean a polisher, grinding stone worker who grinds the rough edges on the castings or a brass turner who machines the castings to the final measurements ive come across different skills under one heading i put it down to the lack of knowledge of the enumerator...i hope this might help you

33bus

tom

 

[Rock House]

Re: Edge Tool Makers.

Barry.I quite agree with you, my Great Grandfather was an Edge Tool Maker
and there were various factories in Birmingham that came under this heading.
I have always assumed that he worked for A.F.Parkes & Co in Dartmouth Street. They made various kinds of garden tools being hoes, spades and scythes to name a few and I believe I found them listed somewhere as Edge Tool Makers.

I also assume that my great grandfather worked at the Garden Tools works on Dartmouth Street, GER22VAN. Though I didn't know it was the firm of A F Parkes & Co, so thanks for that! He lived in the area, lodging in Dartmouth Street at one point, and on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses he was described as a 'hay fork' or 'tool' polisher. Towards the end of his life his occupation was given as an 'edge tool maker'.

 

[erc809]

Re: Edge Tool Makers.(A F Parkes Dartmouth St)

As a young Gas fitting apprentice at Lord St Nechells in the late forties I once had the opportunity to witness the skills of the employees at A F Parkes' in Darmouth St while doing some work there.
I was mesmorised to see a blob of molten metal removed from a furnace and shaped into a Pitchfork by a 2 man team - one doing the twisting and shaping and his mate working the 'Drop Hammer' with just a rope up to the pulley belt - he could lower the hammer with a huge thump to get the metal shaped started and then reduce it to a delicate touch as prongs was tapered to a point, what skill they had and in such hellish conditions, no words exchanged due to the noise but just instinctive teamwork. The next batch could be shovels for some distant land but these would be just another blob of molten metal to be transformed and read for the wooden handle to be fitted.
The press shop was adjacent to the canal which gave Dartmouth St that Hump shape we biked over so often, they would stop for lunch and eat the contents of their lunch box pausing to casually throw a morsel to the canal rats who obviously responded to the dinner bell. Whenever long lost skills are spoken of I am mindful of those men and many many others like them and feel priviledged to have witnessed it just in time. Eric Clayton

 

[GER22VAN]

Re: Edge Tool Makers.(A F Parkes Dartmouth St)

E Clayton. What a great story you have. I like to think that my Great Grandfather worked there as he was an Edge Tool maker and lived just across the road in Richard Street. I have an old hoe which has PARKES stamped on it and wonder if it was made at this factory.

 

[erc809]

Re: Edge Tool Makers.(A F Parkes Dartmouth St)

Hi GER22VAN, glad you identified with my memory from my brief time in AF PARKES all the more poignant for you having a Great Grandfather work there so a vested interest in our City Heritage and your DNA to prove it, so please feel proud of that fact spare a thought when you next hold that Hoe of that work force who made this City great and only knew one work ethic, work or go hungry, good luck -Eric Clayton

 

[erc809]

On my travels working as a gas-fitter with B'ham Gas Board I once had a fortnight at The Crocodile Works Alma St converting their huge walk in Ovens to Town Gas. Talk about Dante's Inferno, the heat and noise as rows of men toiled sharpening long Knives -the word Panga comes to mind or pehaps Machette. Large heavy wheels were continualy being 'painted' with glue -rolled in emery like powder and loaded in these Ovens. But my lasting memory is that of a Man sitting at a 4" bar of Iron and mechanicaly lifting evey 'Knife' with one hand striking the Bar and depending on the sound I presume place it with his other hand on the relevant pile he sat there as if in a trance and all these knives passed through his hands, astounding to notice that the 4" bar was down to about 2" where he had struck it countless time -each spark meaning the bar would inevitably be cut through - only then would he perhaps come out of his trance like state, never forgotten it, I have others also from those times in the 50's - bless em all. E Clayton

 

[Seabird]

On my travels working as a gas-fitter with B'ham Gas Board I once had a fortnight at The Crocodile Works Alma St converting their huge walk in Ovens to Town Gas. Talk about Dante's Inferno, the heat and noise as rows of men toiled sharpening long Knives -the word Panga comes to mind or pehaps Machette. Large heavy wheels were continualy being 'painted' with glue -rolled in emery like powder and loaded in these Ovens. But my lasting memory is that of a Man sitting at a 4" bar of Iron and mechanicaly lifting evey 'Knife' with one hand striking the Bar and depending on the sound I presume place it with his other hand on the relevant pile he sat there as if in a trance and all these knives passed through his hands, astounding to notice that the 4" bar was down to about 2" where he had struck it countless time -each spark meaning the bar would inevitably be cut through - only then would he perhaps come out of his trance like state, never forgotten it, I have others also from those times in the 50's - bless em all. E Clayton

Eric, when you worked as a gas fitter did you know Jack Bagley?

 

[erc809]

Sorry Seabird - so many fitters dotted around the City at District Branches, I could ask my Pal from those days (Dave Gilmore) possible to work a life time and never meet up with others. I worked at Lord St Perry-Barr and finally Central Fitting in Ladywood before leaving to work for myself, finished due to the 80's recession and went into Further Edu at Sutton College - another world but I survived, best wishes Eric

 

[Seabird]

Never mind - reason I asked is I know Dad worked from Lord St. but would've been a lot older than you. He retired in 1969.
How things change - I remember when I was a small child he used to travel round on a bike with his toolbag on the back - and had to wear a peaked cap!
During the war it was a reserved occupation and he got badly gassed when he got called out to a fractured gas main when a bomb came down near the Parkinson Cowan factory.
He also spent a lot of time lining flues with asbestos (!!!!) during the 60s when many folk were having gas fires installed instead of coal fires.

 

[erc809]

Hi Seabird, what was your Dad's name, I worked out of Lord St on No 3 District {Aston-Newtown-Lozells) as an apprentice around 1949 - until my N Service in 52. If your Dad was called out to Parkinson-Cowan Stechford he would probably be No 4 District but we all congregated in the same area for daily job allocation so I may know him.
Eric C

 

[Seabird]

Hi Eric - it was Jack Bagley - he had a pal at 'the gas board' as they called it, called Frank Bluck, and they were both keen anglers. They both lived in Small Heath.

 

[erc809]

Hi Seabird, new Frank Bluck for years, older than I we worked out of the same branches at the Gas, Lord St nechells and then in the 60s at Sherbourne St Ladywood, believe he was a keen cricketer in his day as well, didn't know Frank hailed from S Heath but as I say knew him so well in the work place. Eric

 

[Seabird]

Hi Seabird, new Frank Bluck for years, older than I we worked out of the same branches at the Gas, Lord St nechells and then in the 60s at Sherbourne St Ladywood, believe he was a keen cricketer in his day as well, didn't know Frank hailed from S Heath but as I say knew him so well in the work place. Eric

Frank died about 14 years ago, just before Dad. He was living in Chelmsley wood at the time, but he and Dad still kept in touch. He and Nan would come up to Wales for holidays, and Frank would be so keen to get out fishing he didn't even bother getting dressed - just put his coat and wellies over his pyjamas! He was always a good laugh, very different from Dad who was a quiet little man, probably because he was partially deaf and couldn't hear a lot of what was going on, although together they would get into some scrapes!
Frank was also a keen rugby player, and played for the B'ham muni's for a while.

 

[John Weston]

Hi all
I'm researching John Turner his occupation on this son Williams marriage cert 21/10/1861 Parish Church of Handsworth is Brassfounder.I have searched for John Turner on all/Warwick /stafford the censuses and have been lead on many a false trail.The John Turner i am interested in researching has an occupation of Edge tool maker through 1841-1881 censuses.
I read on one of the threads that the occupations on marriage certs are set ones.I am unsure is these occupations are compatable as i have seen both listed on mar cert seperatly before.I have a few IGI Christening records to research to verfiy addresses as this family continued to lived at the same address 1841-1881 the occuption will also be recorded.Would the occupation have be changed only for the marriage cert i just don't know.There was just one other John Turner with a Brass founder occupation in 1841 but have not researched him yet as his age would make him more of a grandadfather which i have also concidered a possiblity.Any Idea's please.
Denny

Hi there, I found this page when researching my auger bit with the stamp "J.F. Turner 48 (or 18 - number indistinct) Bridge Street". Just sending the details in case it helps answer any of your questions.