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Birmingham Railway Carriage Co

L

Liz Baker

master brummie
Hi does anyone have any info on the carriage works in smethwick not sure if I've posted in the right place. I think my grandfather used to work there years ago. I don't have any info on the carriage works at all so any info would be apprieciated:) Thanks
Liz
 
Hello Liz,
The history of the Birmingham Railway Carriage and Wagon Company Ltd. is not very well recorded. The Birmingham Wagon Company Ltd was registered on 20 March 1855 to acquire a firm founded the previous year, and it seems that this company adopted the full title just quoted in November 1878. Most of its early business seems to have been with British owned railways in Argentina, wand they were also involved in the management of the lines. According to the late John Price, they were shipping 50 double-deck sheep wagons per week to Argentina, as well as first class passenger and sleeper cars. It seems that they produced a very small number of horse trams as well. Another of their specialities was building luxury carriages for the Pullman Car Company.
In the 20th century they kept themselves apart from other firms which merged and/or regrouped, but developed new diesl cars for the Argentin railways in the 1920s and 1930s. At that time they were also building tube trains for London, as well as trolleybus for London transport in the late 1930s. Exports continued at a declining rate..
After World War 2 they decided to concentrate on diesel locomotives, supplying to the Irish and British Railways, but the modernisation programmes were chopped in the later 1960s. Also, they had tried to get into building further tube trains with disappointing results. They closed their carriage works in 1963.
Peter
 
Thak you Mike & peter that is really intresting. You've both given me an insight of what my grandfather did for 43 yrs so a big thank you. I think I'm going into the Smethwick libary to see if they have some information on the people working there and hopefully get some photo's ect.So again thanks things like this bring the past to life.
 
Im glad this company has been bought to the attention of the forum. I have had a interest in it for some time, they also built some of the stock for the "wagon lits" company operators of the orient express and exported rolling stock and diesel and electric locos all over the world. As mentioned they ceased production but as I understand it the company did not go bankrupt it just stopped building and started to lease out its property to other busineses. Liz, i think you will find plenty of information on the "net" but I think Smethwick library or Smethwich History group will have something of interest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Railway_Carriage_and_Wagon_Company
 
At the rear of the Baggies football ground, not sure if any of the buildings are still visible
 
I lived in Wattville Road, and the Carriageworks factory ran across the end of our gardens, with every second or third garden having a chimney stack. The houses, old two up and two down dwellings belonged to the Carriageworks and as my father was employed as a coach painter, we were allowed to rent one.
The timescale is the very early 1960's, and I can recall my father leaving home for the short walk down to the site entrance, opposite the Raleigh cycle factories.
My father was an apprentice coach painter and although he passed away several years ago , I still have his lining pencils in a cigarette tin, packed in grease, from the day he last used them. ( Although called pencils, they were in fact very long , soft brushes and were used to 'strike' a straight line along a coach, long before transfer prints were used for lining or lettering.)
I recall we moved away around 1968 (?) I think the houses were owned by private landlords by then. This link shows a TV interview from 1962, and makes reference to the houses owned by them. https://www.macearchive.org/Media.html?Title=5654
 
Thanks Bill, D willy and clubsie for your insight into the carriage works sorry I haven't been on the forum for a while. We have been away and then really buzy at work so no time to reply. I didn't know anything about the carriage works so a BIG Thank you to you all for taking the time to tell me.
 
pict2375-jpg.22413


I came across this gem, posted on a railway site, today. It was taken in South America apparently.
 
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clubsie said:
I lived in Wattville Road, and the Carriageworks factory ran across the end of our gardens, with every second or third garden having a chimney stack. The houses, old two up and two down dwellings belonged to the Carriageworks and as my father was employed as a coach painter, we were allowed to rent one.
The timescale is the very early 1960's, and I can recall my father leaving home for the short walk down to the site entrance, opposite the Raleigh cycle factories.
My father was an apprentice coach painter and although he passed away several years ago , I still have his lining pencils in a cigarette tin, packed in grease, from the day he last used them. ( Although called pencils, they were in fact very long , soft brushes and were used to 'strike' a straight line along a coach, long before transfer prints were used for lining or lettering.)
I recall we moved away around 1968 (?) I think the houses were owned by private landlords by then. This link shows a TV interview from 1962, and makes reference to the houses owned by them. https://www.macearchive.org/Media.html?Title=5654
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I think that as Bill says, the Company didn't go bankrupt. It looks like the British Railways modernisation scheme meant the orders were drying up. In 1950 they had had an order worth 200K pounds, and another in 1955. So I suppose that they wound up and the shareholders divided the spoils. The site was broken up into smaller units and rented out.

Maybe as Clubsie has said the houses may have been sold to private landlords. In 1961 there were 2,000 employees
 
My Grandfather William J CRUMP and his Brother, Frederick Crump (a deaf mute) worked there all their lives. this would have been in the 1940s on. William J Crump went over to the USA with his other brother Herbert A Crump but did not like it there and came back to Smethwick lived on Cheshire road all his life. Granddad lived to be 95 years old and died in his chair smoking his pipe Photo is my Dad, Herbert J Crump My uncle Herbert(Gus)Crump that stayed in the USA and my Grand Dad William (Will)J Crump who worked at the carriage works all his life Look at the photo and see the difference in dress in the Yank Brother and the English Brother
 

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I'm a part owner of 3 of the diesel locomotives built at the BRCW works in Smethwick in 1960 (we keep them at a heritage railway just north of Manchester), these locos spent their working lives on the Southern Region of British Rail however Smethwick products were exported worldwide, and these were not just railway carriages and wagons; buses were also produced at the site as well as Cromwell tanks and aircraft for the war effort. The works itself was situated on Middlemore Road, in fact significant parts of it still exist, the factory buildings adjoining the road have the BRCW five pointed star emblem in the design about 30ft up, all the way along. I believe that these buildings were the offices in which design was carried out. The Park Rose Industrial Estate is the remains of the site, you can still see many of the buildings standing within the industrial estate although a lot of the works has been flattened and a fire in December 2014 damaged some more of it beyond repair. However, if you catch a train or tram east from The Hawthorns station you can still look across and see the legend "The Birmingham Railway Carriage & Wagon Co Ltd" on a wall. Other posters are quite correct, BRCW did not go bankrupt, but did back out of building railway vehicles. Possibly this is related to the fact that it did not get the contract to build the 512 Class 47 locomotives - BR's standard diesel loco of the 1960s - this went to Brush of Loughborough, although BRCW's prototype, D0260 "Lion" was clearly a very capable machine. However it would probably have been inevitable anyway. Rolling stock production in the UK in general took a considerable downturn at this time as the replacement of BR's steam traction by diesel and electric was largely complete. BRCW's enforced response to the drying up of work was to close the Middlemore Road plant, after a life of 99 years. I was once told that BRCW continued to trade as First National Finance, however a brief look on the internet indicates that they last filed accounts 10 years ago.
 
Jonathan Wilcox said:
I'm a part owner of 3 of the diesel locomotives built at the BRCW works in Smethwick in 1960 (we keep them at a heritage railway just north of Manchester), these locos spent their working lives on the Southern Region of British Rail however Smethwick products were exported worldwide, and these were not just railway carriages and wagons; buses were also produced at the site as well as Cromwell tanks and aircraft for the war effort. The works itself was situated on Middlemore Road, in fact significant parts of it still exist, the factory buildings adjoining the road have the BRCW five pointed star emblem in the design about 30ft up, all the way along. I believe that these buildings were the offices in which design was carried out. The Park Rose Industrial Estate is the remains of the site, you can still see many of the buildings standing within the industrial estate although a lot of the works has been flattened and a fire in December 2014 damaged some more of it beyond repair. However, if you catch a train or tram east from The Hawthorns station you can still look across and see the legend "The Birmingham Railway Carriage & Wagon Co Ltd" on a wall. Other posters are quite correct, BRCW did not go bankrupt, but did back out of building railway vehicles. Possibly this is related to the fact that it did not get the contract to build the 512 Class 47 locomotives - BR's standard diesel loco of the 1960s - this went to Brush of Loughborough, although BRCW's prototype, D0260 "Lion" was clearly a very capable machine. However it would probably have been inevitable anyway. Rolling stock production in the UK in general took a considerable downturn at this time as the replacement of BR's steam traction by diesel and electric was largely complete. BRCW's enforced response to the drying up of work was to close the Middlemore Road plant, after a life of 99 years. I was once told that BRCW continued to trade as First National Finance, however a brief look on the internet indicates that they last filed accounts 10 years ago.
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I seem to remember that "Wagon Finance" or Wagon Holdings" was born out of BRCW.
 
I would be very interested in anyone, who knows relatives of people that could have worked with my Grandfather and his deaf mute brother at the Carriage works
 
The Birmingham Railway & Carriage Works was on both sides of the GWR Line north of Handsworth & Smethwick Station. Many of the buildings remain, although adapted for other business use. A part of their business was the hire of wagons and their hire books are kept at Stafford Records Office. They had their own locomotives that shunted traffic on both sides of the works and there was a bridge that carried their private railway over the GWR tracks.
 
oldbrit said:
I would be very interested in anyone, who knows relatives of people that could have worked with my Grandfather and his deaf mute brother at the Carriage works
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Hi Oldbrit,
I don't know whether there is any connection but I had an elderly great aunt who lived down Wattville Road in the 1950's. She too was a deaf mute from birth and was friendly with a local man (also a deaf mute) who used to visit - I did meet him once and his name was Saunders - could this be any connection?
The Birmingham Carriage Works built not only built rolling stock and coaches for British Railway use but also sent coaches to many countries such as Egypt, India, Malaya etc. Some were very exotic - for example to Indian Princes and one for Argentina and used by the President and Eva Peron.
The back gates opened into Kentish Road and for some reason carriages were often transported through these gates on a low-loader requiring a great deal of difficult manoeuvers to navigate the tight corner into Wattville Road and up towards the Soho Road.
 
Another feature of the BRCW was the core business of wagon hire and repair. Their records now held at Stafford RO, hold a wealth of wagon hirings to local and other British firms.
 
enzothebaker said:
Hi Oldbrit,
I don't know whether there is any connection but I had an elderly great aunt who lived down Wattville Road in the 1950's. She too was a deaf mute from birth and was friendly with a local man (also a deaf mute) who used to visit - I did meet him once and his name was Saunders - could this be any connection?
The Birmingham Carriage Works built not only built rolling stock and coaches for British Railway use but also sent coaches to many countries such as Egypt, India, Malaya etc. Some were very exotic - for example to Indian Princes and one for Argentina and used by the President and Eva Peron.
The back gates opened into Kentish Road and for some reason carriages were often transported through these gates on a low-loader requiring a great deal of difficult manoeuvers to navigate the tight corner into Wattville Road and up towards the Soho Road.
Click to expand...
My grandad was born in 1884 and my great Uncle Frank in 1882 so I do not think that was the same person.
 
BRCW built some of Birmingham Daimler buses in the late 1930's. It has been claimed that their bodies were not as durable as their Saltley competitor were. As far as I know they did not get any post war orders for new buses from BCT but they did rebuild some of the pre-ww2 buses in 1947 and 1949.
I don't know what other bus companies had their products.
 
Liz Baker said:
Hi does anyone have any info on the carriage works in smethwick not sure if I've posted in the right place. I think my grandfather used to work there years ago. I don't have any info on the carriage works at all so any info would be apprieciated:) Thanks
Liz
Click to expand...
My Grandad William Crump and his Brother a deaf mute worked there all their lives.
 
I understand that Vintage Trains have bought the name and hope to resurrect the works on the Tyseley site. I might be wrong
 
Example of works wagon from my phot collection of local wagons. This from Google-Images. Also lots of maps & other illus. there. Well worth a visit.
1546964900026.png
Roy/Superdad3
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Bishopsmate said:
I understand that Vintage Trains have bought the name and hope to resurrect the works on the Tyseley site. I might be wrong
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BRCW was revived in 2014 and has nothing to do with Vintage Trains, we did try to acquire a site in Tyselely but were unsuccessful.
 
Radiorails said:
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Birmingham_Railway_Carriage_and_Wagon_Co
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Head of State trains were supplied to Argentina, Brazil and Egypt. They also supplied 1/3 of the coaches on the South African Blue Train, Metro Cammell suppllied the rest. Diesel locos went to Australia, Sierra Leone, Ireland, Ghana and the UK. One supervisor got the George Medal for inventing the roller bearing turret ring which vastly increased rotation speed on the A10 and subsequent tanks.
 
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