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WW2 Bombing in Yardley Brum

oldbrit

OldBrit in Exile
November 23 1940 79 years ago This one got to close for comfort we lived around the corner on Moat Lane Yardley. Could have hit our house a few feet away. Feel lucky this day but sad for those that were not so lucy. That's me 7 years old and my pals by the barrow, Chap on bike worked at BSA lucky he was off that day many killed at BSA.

crump-rem10.jpg
(Post edited by Mod to include intended image)
 
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Spargone

master brummie
Taking a dispassionate view, (easier done at this point in time), it does illustrate how ineffective bombing was in WW2. A bomb like the one used here might only destroy a couple of dwellings and perhaps kill no-one yet the bomber and its crew might not have returned from its mission, costing the Germans more than the British losses.

It is that consideration that drove air forces to go in for massed bomber attacks, there is safety in numbers, and they overwhelm the defenders, firefighters, medical and civil defence forces.

There are some bombing maps here, including Vera Road.
 

oldbrit

OldBrit in Exile
Thanks for your lack of compassion Spargone BUT I think you are wrong the bombings were far from ineffective ONLY DESTROY A COUPLE OF DWELLINGS AND KILL NO ONE???? The cost was more to the Germans than the British loses??? Tell that to the one that lost everything including life. You were there and was bombed out???
 
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nuance

New Member
November 23 1940 79 years ago This one got to close for comfort we lived around the corner on Moat Lane Yardley. Could have hit our house a few feet away. Feel lucky this day but sad for those that were not so lucy. That's me 7 years old and my pals by the barrow, Chap on bike worked at BSA lucky he was off that day many killed at BSAView attachment 139402
My mum was lucky to survive a bomb in Littleover Avenue Hall Green on the same night. The bomb fell between two semi-detached houses, Nos. 30 and 32.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
my mom was just 10 years old when a bomb hit the house just 4 away from her house...hit the corner house killing everyone...she also lost a good friend when his house was hit killing himself and all of his family...this occured just a few days after the young 11 year old who was sweet on mom said "beryl one day i will marry you"....mom never ever forgot this..

lyn
 

Spargone

master brummie
Thanks for your lack of compassion Spargone BUT I think you are wrong the bombings were far from ineffective ONLY DESTROY A COUPLE OF DWELLINGS AND KILL NO ONE???? The cost was more to the Germans than the British loses??? Tell that to the one that lost everything including life. You were there and was bombed out???
I read the pre-edited comment and wondered what you meant, Alles is klar.

History ought to be an objective study of the past and while the opinion of the actors is invaluable it is only a sub-set of the truth. That is why I used the word 'dispassionate' to signal the difference.

People involved in wars may be driven by passions but rest assured, in the background, there are people doing the calculations, not that they are always listened to. If they were then losses on one side would be maximised
and losses on the other minimised. It depends whose side you were on if that is good or bad.

Some years ago I was fortunate to spend some time with a German man, probably a contemporary of yours. He told me that he said to his mother, "Who are these devils that are raining such destruction on us?", and his mother said, "My son, we are doing the same to them." The 'devils', of course, were our own lads of RAF Bomber Command, doing their duty as they saw it - and suffering the appalling death rate of 44.4%, or some 56,000, which is comparable with modern estimate of German civilan casualties caused by the RAF.

Was the RAF effort worth it? The passionate view of the actors of the time, the bombed out or the aircrews, was no doubt 'yes', as long as we left out those 'lacking moral fibre', the post-traumatic stress disorder sufferers of the time. But taking the passionate view traps us in the past, never allowing us to learn the lesson from history and condems us to repeat the cycle.
 

oldbrit

OldBrit in Exile
crump-rem10.jpg
I read the pre-edited comment and wondered what you meant, Alles is klar.

History ought to be an objective study of the past and while the opinion of the actors is invaluable it is only a sub-set of the truth. That is why I used the word 'dispassionate' to signal the difference.

People involved in wars may be driven by passions but rest assured, in the background, there are people doing the calculations, not that they are always listened to. If they were then losses on one side would be maximised
and losses on the other minimised. It depends whose side you were on if that is good or bad.

Some years ago I was fortunate to spend some time with a German man, probably a contemporary of yours. He told me that he said to his mother, "Who are these devils that are raining such destruction on us?", and his mother said, "My son, we are doing the same to them." The 'devils', of course, were our own lads of RAF Bomber Command, doing their duty as they saw it - and suffering the appalling death rate of 44.4%, or some 56,000, which is comparable with modern estimate of German civilan casualties caused by the RAF.

Was the RAF effort worth it? The passionate view of the actors of the time, the bombed out or the aircrews, was no doubt 'yes', as long as we left out those 'lacking moral fibre', the post-traumatic stress disorder sufferers of the time. But taking the passionate view traps us in the past, never allowing us to learn the lesson from history and condems us to repeat the cycle.
I will not make any more response. a waste of time it would appear to me. But I would be interested in others response
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
old brit that photo reminds me of what it must have looked like when a bomb hit my rellies house in erdington...not much damage either side but it killed both of my rellies..husband and wife in their 50s...their names are inscribed on the tree of life memorial in the city centre

lyn
 

Radiorails

master brummie
I was about to post this yesterday but as I typed it the thread was locked. Better late than never they say.

I guess anyone who lived through WW2 has a viewpoint, often coloured by their experiences. WW2 took away my father for most of my life until I was nine and my mother was no longer part of my life since I was just over two years old. Whilst I am not prejudiced against any one or country in particular it has given me a sense of identification with groups who suffered greatly. Conflicts affect many people in many ways and but you are young these things do not often seem too important. It is only as you age - and have families - you begin to realise what most women and men had to endure. Even those not losing loved ones - husbands, sons or daughters - endured a kind of loneliness and fear for other than an elderly relative or children they had no one to share any of their fears and give them succour. Additionally keeping a home going and provisioned was a trial for most of the population - even those with some affluence encountered hardships, especially those things that money could not buy.
Strangely I have never been able to relate to WW1, despite that war having a direct family effect.
 

sospiri

Ex-pat Brummie
I was 8 years old when the war ended, so although I lived through it and luckily came out unscathed, I was not able to form any sort of adult opinion at that age. Had not the Allies resorted to throwing everything we had at the Axis, the result does not bear thinking about. Whether a specific tactic, such as bombing, is more effective than another, we have no control over what tactic is used - it's all down to the military commanders. The commanders have to work with what forces they have to counteract what the enemy throws at them.

One important aspect of Government at these times is to keep up the morale of the civilian population as a people without the will to win and support their military will be certain to lose. In that respect, Churchill was a great leader.

In 1941 we moved into a house adjacent to five houses that had been completely wiped off the map. The picture is very similar to the one John (Old Brit) posted in #8 of this thread and can be found her
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/knowle-road-sparkhill.43482/#post-622978
in my post #4. It must have been a terrible experience, but most of those that were injured moved away from the area. The two that remained and moved across the road never spoke of their experiences, and I didn't know the details of this raid until a few years ago.

So my experiences were somewhat different to someone who was very close by when the bomb dropped, or who had friends or relatives that were killed in such an incident. They, without doubt, have my deepest sympathy as they lived through an experience they will never forget. Likewise those who lost relatives or friends in active service fighting the enemy, and let's not forget the police, fire and ambulance workers who lost their lives helping others. RIP

Few kids today are taught about the war in any detail, especially the human cost, and I'm not going to be drawn into any discussion about whether they should or should not be. I just hope that the people that come onto this and similar forums take the time to do a bit of social history research for themselves about living through a war.

Maurice
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi folks just a little reminder to myself as well :rolleyes: that this thread is about ww2 bomings in yardley...if however someone would like to start a new thread for MEMORIES OF WW2 "in general" that would be good as i dont think we have a thread for this topic...we can then move the off topic posts to that thread...thanks folks

lyn
 
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oldbrit

OldBrit in Exile
I guess is a senior moment? But as I age and hear almost every day it seems now, about someone younger than me dying for whatever reason, I ask myself WHY am I still here and others not? THANKSGIVING day in America is a time for ME to have reflection of all the things to be thankful for. NOVEMBER 23 1940 is one of them, a day that my life could have ended. There have been other days when I was also near to death, One I vividly remember when driving a rental car in England not use to driving on the OTHER BLOODY side of the road I pulled out into traffic in Brum headed the WRONG WAY. LUCKY the other drivers saw my mistake and stopped. That's all my post was really about. THE DAY not so much the WAR and all its reasons. THE LUCK OF THE DRAW, HOW CLOSE SOMETIMES WE COME TO OUR END why ME why SOMEONE ELSE ? All questions with no real answer. I have to chuckle reading SPARGONE comments, in which he refers to war as like a game with actors? maybe thats WAS the way, as a 7 year we looked at it? Thinking back now, IT was like a fantasy, almost a game that kids play lets go play in the rubble, see what we can find to play with. (as me and my pals did in in the photo). There is a Movie "Hope and Glory" well worth a look, that show's all this from children's perspective. Anyway, it's time for my nap. so back to sleep and I hope HAPPY DREAMS of better times I hope. Thanks to BHF for letting me be part of this wonderful group of people and the history of the city I love and miss BRUM!!!!
 

Radiorails

master brummie
There already is a thread on wartime Yardley:

May I suggest non Yardley posts could go here:
or possibly here:
 

Spargone

master brummie
The Birmingham Air Raids Rememberance Association lists only one casualty for 19/11/1940 living in Vera Road, George Fletcher, at No. 78. They have no record to confirm if he received fatal injuries.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
have looked at my list of civilians who died and whos names are on the tree of life memorial and there is no george fletcher so hopefully he survived...

lyn
 

Spargone

master brummie
In 1940 Brian David Williams, aged 5, was able, dispassionately, to write the following:-

TUESDAY 19th NOVEMBER
A terrible raid

We had a terrible Air Raid last night and sheltered under the stairs again. We never go down the dug-out in the garden because it is wet.

This is the 42nd raid on Birmingham. It lasted six hours. 64 Ack-Ack guns around the city fired on the German planes. Bombs fell in the City centre destroying Coates’s factory in Essex Street, also in Yardley and Sparkhill. Factories and schools were destroyed, also a vicarage in Evelyn Road, Sparkhill. 14 people were killed and 16 injured.

WEDNESDAY 20th NOVEMBER
We are bombed out

We were bombed out last night. The bombs fell all night. When we crawled out from under the stairs I could see the sky. The front of the piano was on the other side of the room. There was rubble and bricks and broken glass everywhere. We have lost everything but God has kept us all safe. It was a land-mine. We heard it coming down. Daddy was holding me and Mammy was holding Clarice, and Daddy was holding a string tied to the door. After the All Clear we crawled out from under the stairs, There was a hole in the ceiling and I could see the sky. We walked up Belchers Lane in our night clothes with other clothes on top and have come to Granma and Grandad’s [23 Pretoria Road]. Mammy & Daddy have put our clothes and a few things in the front room. Today Daddy and Mammy went back to the house to get some more things. [661 have been killed in the raid.]

"Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
 
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