WW1 Look up for Charles William Page

[Phil B]

Can any one help with information regarding the Service Record for Charles William Page.
The only facts I know are he was from Birmingham, probably Winson Green or Hockley area, and he was a Private in the Army Service Corps as a "Motor Driver".
Anything would be welcome.
Phil

 

[smtr]

Phil

Charles William Page 1918 M/279643, MT, ASC & 1919 M/279643, M.T A.S.C., 1st Bn absent voters list 13 Alfred Place, Osler Street, Rotton Park Ward.

Suzanne

 

[smtr]

Also Charles William Page

1920 - 13 Alfred Place Osler Street, Ladywood - 497357 Bin., 2/13 Lon. Regt. 1921 - 13 Alfred Place, Osler Street - M/18795 L/Cpl., R.A.S.C Suzanne

 

[Phil B]

Also Charles William Page

1920 - 13 Alfred Place Osler Street, Ladywood - 497357 Bin., 2/13 Lon. Regt. 1921 - 13 Alfred Place, Osler Street - M/18795 L/Cpl., R.A.S.C

Charles William Page 1918 M/279643, MT, ASC & 1919 M/279643, M.T A.S.C., 1st Bn absent voters list 13 Alfred Place, Osler Street, Rotton Park Ward.

Hi Suzanne,
Thanks for the quick response. Amazing how quick.
Charles Page is my Grandfather, my Mother's Dad, I was wondering are there any details about his age or who he was living with at these times.
I'm not sure what records you are looking at, I don't understand all the abrieviations.
My Grandmother was Gertrude Harley Page (nee Webb), I'm trying to establish if they were married.
Phil

 

[smtr]

Phil
They are from the electoral rolls on line which go up to 1955 at present. You can subscribe to the site at www.midlandshistoricaldata.org/
No ages are given though. All the abbreviations are references to army regimental numbers.
Not sure now if this is your Charles as I can't find reference to his wife.

Suzanne

 

[smtr]

Phil

In 1920, 1922, 1925 at 13 Alfred Place, Osler Street is the above Charles William's parents, Charles Andrew & Annie Maria PAGE who he is living with. These are the same people (his parents) who are living at the address in the 1911 census. Does this help pin point him any further?

Suzanne

 

[lindyloo]

Phil, The abbreviations are probably, Mechanical Transport, Army Service Corps
The M/279643 is probably his army number
Bn is Battalion

Also, if he was the son of Charles and Annie then he was born about 1898, going by the 1901 census.

Gertrude Harley Webb was born 1895

I havent found a marriage as yet

 

[Phil B]

Thanks Suzanne and Lindyloo,
The info you've provided looks promising. It's interesting that Charle's mother was Annie Webb.

I'm wondering if Annie Webb is related to Gertrude Harley Webb.

Charles and Gertrude being my maternal Grandparents.

Thanks again.
Phil

 

[smtr]

Phil

my mistake when I put Charles Andrew & Annie Maria Webb it should be PAGE.

There's a marriage for a Charles Andrew M Page to Annie Maria Matthews in 1895 Bham AMJ Vol 6d page 285

Suzanne

 

[Phil B]

Thanks again Suzanne,

Now I have his army number M/279643 any idea on how I could get hold of Charles William Page's service record?
This would probably have a next of kin address entered.

I believe "Ancestry.co.uk" have this type of information but I haven't got access to this web site, it's a bit expensive.

Phil

 

[smtr]

Hi Phil

I have already looked for service records but can't find one matching the reg nos. listed on absent voter records and unfortunately a lot of records were burned in the second world war

Suzanne

 

[lindyloo]

Ive looked too and been unsuccessful, but will look again

 

[smtr]

Hi Lindyloo

I wonder if the fact that he is still serving as a L/Cpl in 1921 would explain why his records aren't there (other than they may have been destroyed)?

Suzanne

 

[lindyloo]

Hi Suzanne, well spotted !!! I hadnt thought of that, it is a possibilty..I'm not sure where Phil would have to try next though ....
The only references I can see for a Charles W Page are 2 in the Army marriages abroad lists..in 1920 ..I think they are both the same people but in different places in India..marrying a girl by the name of Emma Tyler..no other clues other than the grooms name though..

 

[Astonian]

Hi Phil;
i can recall the page family and they moved up to heath street winson green ;
which was only a stone throw from osler steet whch and he worked at the birmingham aluminuim die casting
company around the corner from osler street way back in the fifties and early sixtes
which is just on the corner of osler street and facing rotten park rd
best wishes astonian

 

[Phil B]

Thanks to everyone.

From what you have said it looks like my Grandfather, Charles William Page didn't actual marry Gertrude, my Crandmother, afterall.
The point of all this was to find out what happened to Gertrude. I know she was in the Workhouse in 1921 and I was trying to fiind out what happened to her after that.

Astonian: funny you should mention Heath Street, Winson Green, my mother was born at Perrott Street, Winson Green.

It looks like another dead-end. I'm not doing very well with this family ancestry research.

Thanks again
Phil

 

[smtr]

Hi Phil

Don't give up just yet We all have come across stumbling blocks at some time.

If you know your grandmother was in the workhouse in 1921 are you able to tell us how you know and what name she was using please?

Suzanne

 

[Phil B]

If you know your grandmother was in the workhouse in 1921 are you able to tell us how you know and what name she was using please?

Hi Suzanne,

Answering your question: I have a copy of a Court Order dated 12th May 1921 stating she was residing at "The Workhouse, Selly Oak" and the name she was using then was Gertrude Webb, this being her maiden name.

On my mother's birth certificate in 1917, father's name is Charles William Page and mothers's name is Gertrude Harley Page (nee Webb).

Does this help in any way?
Phil

 

[smtr]

Hi Phil

Thanks for that. Strange that me or Lindyloo can't find a marriage though. Suppose the possibilities are that she could have pretended she was married when registering your mom's birth (if she registered it?) and by 1921 she is using her maiden name as she never married. Or did they marry and divorce? Does your mom's BC give an address for her birth and her mom/dad's address?

Suzanne

 

[Phil B]

Does your mom's BC give an address for her birth and her mom/dad's address?

Hi Suzanne,

Yes, I'm coming to the conclusion that she pretended to be married at the time of my mother's birth.

The birth was registered by Gertrude and the address was Perrott Street.

Phil

 

[Alberta]

Phil , there is a death in Holywell Flint in 1969 of a Gertrude Harley Mendoza born 1895,what is the chance of 2 Gertrude Harleys born 1895.
Cannot find a Gertrude married to Mendoza. May even be worth getting the death certificate to see who the informant was.

 

[smtr]

Phil

There are 3 possible births for a Charles William Page in Bham looking around mid 1890s

1) Charles William Page 1892
2) Charles William Page 1895
3) Charles William M Page 1898

I think the Charles William we have been tracking on here, ie the driver in the ASC is the 3rd above option because his father was Charles Andrew M Page (on his marriage entry).

Now in 1922 living at 13 Alfred Place, Osler Street is: Charles Andrew, Annie Maria, Charles William & Catherine Page. I believe this Catherine Page is Charles William's wife. I have found a marriage entry in the Armed Forces BMD: Charles William M Page to Katherine S Schley in 1921 in Cologne, Germany. Reference page 362. Perhaps if you sent to the General Registry Office for this certificate it would say if Charles William was a bachelor or widow/divorced? The station (army?) is Koln.

Suzanne

 

[smtr]

From 1927 - 1935 Charles William Martin & Katherine Page are at 190 Witton Lodge Road, Erdington

NB Katherine is spelled with a C & K on the entries and Charles includes the MARTIN in 1935

Suzanne

Strange that the Court Order is in 1921, the same as the marriage year?

 

[Phil B]

Thanks to all,

I'll have to review all the information you have kindly given me, to decide where I go from here.

It would have been nice to get hold of Charles William Page's service record, I'm sure there would have been more information here. Never mind, you can't have every thing!

Thanks again
Phil

 

[Phil B]

Also Charles William Page
1920 - 13 Alfred Place Osler Street, Ladywood - 497357 Bin., 2/13 Lon. Regt.
1921 - 13 Alfred Place, Osler Street - M/18795 L/Cpl., R.A.S.C

Suzanne

Hi Suzanne, I know this an old thread but I was wondering if you could double check for me this information you found either on the Electoral Rolls or Absent voters list for my Grandfather. The 497357 number you gave me apparently belongs to a Henry Hunt 1/13 Batt. London Regt and not Charles Page and the other number is also in doubt because it's only 5 digits, it's normally 6 digits, so I've been told.
Thanks
Phil

 

[smtr]

Hi Phil,

I have had another look and the listings for Charles William Page and they are as follows:

1918 Ladywood Rotton Park Ward - Charles William Page 13 Alfred place M/279643, MT, ASC OSLER STREET
1919 Ladywood Rotton Park - Charles William Page 13 Alfred place M/279643, M.T A.S.C., 1st Bn. OSLER STREET
1920 This only states his name and address, Charles William Page, 13 Alfred Place, Osler St. (No reg. no. given)
1921 Ladywood Charles William Page 13 Alfred Place M/18795 L/Cpl., R.A.S.C. OSLER STREET

Not too sure why I didn't give you the 1918-1919 listings before. Hope this helps.

Suzanne

 

[Phil B]

Not too sure why I didn't give you the 1918-1919 listings before.....
Suzanne

Hi Suzanne, Thanks for this. You did give me the other listings before on a previous post. It was just the other two numbers that I needed confirming.
Thanks again
Phil