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White Swan, Legge St.

C

clarkie

Exiled Brummie
Hi,
Does anyone have information on the above prior to 1840.
I know that Sarah Clarke was there with her 3 children in 1841, her son in law Matthew Smart was listed as Victular in 1849/50 Directories. Thomas Allen was there in 1851, he was listed as Victular in 1855 Directory & his Wife Ann in 1858. All above 6 legge St.

George Pearson was Victular in 1861 census and in 1867 Directory listed at 85 Legge St. Presumable the Pub moved or they renumbered the Street.

Any earlier history would be appreciated.

Clarkie
 
I find the details of the White Swan slightly different
1839 Sarah Clarke victualer , Legge St
1841 No 6 Legge St White Swan, Sarah Clarke (Piggotts directory)
1845 No 6 Legge St White Swan, Mrs Sarah Clarke (PO directory)
1849 No 6 Legge St White Swan , Matthew Smart (Whites & PO directory)
Between 1849 and 1855 street was renumbered (before there were several buildings with the same number)
1855 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan Mrs Ann Allen (PO directory)
No 85 Legge St White Swan Thomas Allen (also box 7 ivory rule maker 46
Woodcock St) (Whites directory)
1858 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan Mrs Ann Allen (Dix’s directory)
1860 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan James Bryan (Central Birm Pubs vol2 McKenna)
1862 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan George Pearson (PO directory)
1868 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan George Pearson (PO directory)
I presume you are not interested in landlords after this

The entries for earlier directories just list victualler, or retail brewer, with no number or name, and , as there are in most cases two of them in the street (probably the White Swan & Brittania) you cannot be sure which is the White Swan
The PO directory was presumably more up to date in 1855, and Thomas must have died early that year or in the previous year. I’m not sure why you have pub as no 6 in 1855 and 1858, whereas I show it as 85.
mike
 
Many thanks for response Mike. This confirms what I needed.
For information I have since discovered other directory entries Edward Ebrell was listed in 1818 & Mary Ebrell in 1835.

I've checked my notes on No6/85: Whites Directory B'Ham 1855, Thomas Allen. Licensee, White Swan, 85 Legge Street, also on 1851 Census at this address, Licensed Victullar & Rule Maker, he was born in B'ham in 1823.

Clarkie
 
Edward Ebrell, was also listed in 1815 as a victualer in legge st in the Wrightsons directory, and it is probably the White Swan , but do you mean you have confirmation that Edward Ebrell was definitely at the White Swan and not another establishment
Mike
 
clarkie said:
Hi,
Does anyone have information on the above prior to 1840.
I know that Sarah Clarke was there with her 3 children in 1841, her son in law Matthew Smart was listed as Victular in 1849/50 Directories. Thomas Allen was there in 1851, he was listed as Victular in 1855 Directory & his Wife Ann in 1858. All above 6 legge St.

George Pearson was Victular in 1861 census and in 1867 Directory listed at 85 Legge St. Presumable the Pub moved or they renumbered the Street.

Any earlier history would be appreciated.

Clarkie
Click to expand...
Hello Clarkie,
I know you specifically asked for pre-1840 but my info is around 1850: Thomas Allen and his wife Ann (nee Terry) had a son, Arthur born at the pub on 15th October 1952. Thomas Allen died aged 33 in 1855 and his widow re-married a widower named Sylvester Read, also a publican. Arthur's sister, Catherine was my 3rd Great aunt, born 1851 and died 1881 at The Fox and Grapes, Park street (recently demolished). .. my ancestors seem to have run a variety of pubs around the city :)
 
mikejee said:
I find the details of the White Swan slightly different
1839 Sarah Clarke victualer , Legge St
1841 No 6 Legge St White Swan, Sarah Clarke (Piggotts directory)
1845 No 6 Legge St White Swan, Mrs Sarah Clarke (PO directory)
1849 No 6 Legge St White Swan , Matthew Smart (Whites & PO directory)
Between 1849 and 1855 street was renumbered (before there were several buildings with the same number)
1855 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan Mrs Ann Allen (PO directory)
No 85 Legge St White Swan Thomas Allen (also box 7 ivory rule maker 46
Woodcock St) (Whites directory)
1858 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan Mrs Ann Allen (Dix’s directory)
1860 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan James Bryan (Central Birm Pubs vol2 McKenna)
1862 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan George Pearson (PO directory)
1868 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan George Pearson (PO directory)
I presume you are not interested in landlords after this

The entries for earlier directories just list victualler, or retail brewer, with no number or name, and , as there are in most cases two of them in the street (probably the White Swan & Brittania) you cannot be sure which is the White Swan
The PO directory was presumably more up to date in 1855, and Thomas must have died early that year or in the previous year. I’m not sure why you have pub as no 6 in 1855 and 1858, whereas I show it as 85.
mike
Click to expand...
Thomas Allen did die in Spring of 1855, aged 33, i'm awaiting a death cert for further details - his widow, Ann moved to the Fox and Grapes Freeman st by 1861 and stayed for at least 20 years
 
mikejee said:
I find the details of the White Swan slightly different
1839 Sarah Clarke victualer , Legge St
1841 No 6 Legge St White Swan, Sarah Clarke (Piggotts directory)
1845 No 6 Legge St White Swan, Mrs Sarah Clarke (PO directory)
1849 No 6 Legge St White Swan , Matthew Smart (Whites & PO directory)
Between 1849 and 1855 street was renumbered (before there were several buildings with the same number)
1855 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan Mrs Ann Allen (PO directory)
No 85 Legge St White Swan Thomas Allen (also box 7 ivory rule maker 46
Woodcock St) (Whites directory)
1858 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan Mrs Ann Allen (Dix’s directory)
1860 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan James Bryan (Central Birm Pubs vol2 McKenna)
1862 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan George Pearson (PO directory)
1868 No. 85 Legge St. White Swan George Pearson (PO directory)
I presume you are not interested in landlords after this

The entries for earlier directories just list victualler, or retail brewer, with no number or name, and , as there are in most cases two of them in the street (probably the White Swan & Brittania) you cannot be sure which is the White Swan
The PO directory was presumably more up to date in 1855, and Thomas must have died early that year or in the previous year. I’m not sure why you have pub as no 6 in 1855 and 1858, whereas I show it as 85.
mike
Click to expand...
Where do I confirm the pub proprietor fir 1930’s. I think it was my grandfather Frank Couzens
 
The following is from Kelly directories (remember that date is publication date and probably refers to the year before):

1932 Couzens Frank Hendley Plough & Harrow ,4 Webster St
1933-1936 Couzens Frank Hendley , White Swan 85,86 Legge St
1937 Edition. Frank Couzens not listed
 
Last edited:
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