What has happened to our great statues ?

[A.Willoughby]

To add to the believed location of the original home of John Rogers I have an article written by a Robert K. Dent dated 30gth January, 1895 which appeared in publication of the Birmingham and Midland Institute, Archaelogical Section.
It states: In the survey of the lordship of Birmingham made in 1529 the probable birthplace of the future scholar is thus described:

John Rogers: One cottage with garden adjacent, situate in Derytende and one parcel of land held by Indenture dated 5th January, 1518 to hold from the festival of the blessed Mary the Virgin during 60 years at an annual rent of six shillings.

In a lease of 1520 its location is described as being "as a cottage and garden plecke thereto pertaining, lying within the 'hy-way ledying fro Brymycham to Coventre and the land of Bladwin Broke of 'Bordesley the younger' and with the 'cottage and garden pleck' was let 'a piece of ground lying nigh to the water called the Rea'

The verse goes on to show proof by way of various accounts to prove that the John Rogers of Deritend and the one who became the martyr were one of the same

It continues later to say: A survey of 1529 was probably never completed, a rough draft only being prepared. By that time the property really belonged to John Rogers and it was, according to Toulmin Smith, afterwards acquired by the owners of the Old Crown House.

The article makes a later reference to John's son, Daniel Rogers, and he was described "A bigoted Protestant as we might expect of the marytr to become" There was another son named John.
Will

 

[O.C.]

How intresting Will, I have Toulmin Smith's book of Memorials of Old Birmingham, traditions of The Old Crown House in DER-YAT-END in the Lordship of Birmingham ....I will plough through it tonight and see what I can come up with........

 

[Pro Civitate]

Nelson's statue

Cromwell, re: the Nelson statue, they were not bronze plaques, but low relief carving to the originial marble plinth. To the rear of the inscription was a low-relief depiction of Birmingham represented as a woman in a mournful and dejected mood, her children (symbolic of the next generation) offering comfort to their mother by presenting her with a rudder and trident.

When the statue was moved in the 1960's to accommodate the Bull Ring redevelopment it was damaged beyond repair and was replaced by the Portland stone one we know today. A very sad loss, but an accident.

 

[Pro Civitate]

Nelson's statue again

Here is the statue about to be moved for the first time in 1959. It was then placed in a location temporarily when it was damaged, before being put back where many will remember it in the old Bull Ring (1960-2000).

I've also attached a few more pics related to it, the last of which illustrates the 2005 200th anniversary "Canopy of Honour" designed by The Birmingham Civic Society. It was them who also reintroduced the traditional of floral garlanding in 2004.

Next year is the 250th anniversary of the birth of Horation Nelson.

 

[Wendy]

Thanks for that information Pro Civitate very interesting and informative. The pictures are great thanks. Wendy

 

[O.C.]

Very Interesting Pro Civitate ..Thank for the info.and photo's
The Iron "railings" were made in the form of pikes connected by twisted cables ,the corner posts (lamposts)on the palisading in the form of a cluster of pikes which you can see very clearly on your first photo were made of bronze from the old cannons from the Victory...are the 'lamposts still about' and who owns them as they was bought with £500 of public money by the people of Brum who raised £2,500 for the statue.
I do believe money was left "forever" for the cleaning of the statue by Joseph Farror but that was only a tanner (6 pennies) and I suppose that died when the money ran out
In one of the old Brum newspapers 1954 there was an article about placing a laurel and chrysanthemum anchor on the statue to commemorate Trafalgar Day by the Navy, I don't know when the practice started or when it finished or if it has been revived
The Great Mathew Boulton struck a wonderful medal for all the men who took part in the Battle of Trafalgar Gold,Silver and Bronze according to rank

 

[Pro Civitate]

Thomas Attwood

Here's a few close-ups of "King Tom", before he was bundled off to Sparkbrook (via Calthorpe Park 1925-1973).

I went and had a look at him in Larches Green on Tuesday (The larches was one of his homes when he lived in Birmingham) and he's in an appalling state. I took some photos and will post them here later today. He also lived at The Grove in Harborne (then a tiny Staffordshire village on the outskirts of Birmingham).

He is going to be taken into store in July, but then we must find a suitable place for him to be resurrected. I'm afraid I don't think parks are the answer these days - they're just a magnet for vandals and graffiti.

He needs to be in a public place to be seen and remembered. Monument comes from the latin verb "to remember", but you can't remember something if you never see it.

 

[O.C.]

Thanks for that, Hard to keep track of them the way they have been shunted about, years ago I was going to make miniatures of all our great statues and see if they would sell but testing the market no one had even heard of Sturge, Attwood and co. so I gave up on the idea..sad really but I made one of Abraham Lincoln and everybody I showed it to knew who he was...which is sadder not knowing the History of your own City but knowing other countries Great Men

 

[Pro Civitate]

Statuettes

Well, when I was Chairman of the Civic Society's Public Art Committee I commissioned two statuettes, one of Nelson in 2005 and one of Sturge in 2007, both made of pewter. The third will probably be of Edward VII to celebrate his restoration and relocation in 2008/09.

200 Nelson statuettes were bought in 2005/06 and the Nelson Museum in Monmouth had a stock too. The Sturge statuette (or Sturgette as I called them) has only sold 34 to date, but that is not the issue. They are available, though not commercially, to lovers of Birmingham's statues.

 

[O.C.]

Nice to know Pro Civitate ..as the junk thats on sale in the tourist shops is just that, Junk when so much more could be done like wonderful cameo plaques could be made of our great Brummies and cast in resin quite cheaply and plated bronze like the face of Boulton on this commemorative medal...but then its all to do with packaging and marketing and price
..but thats me going off on a tangent again

 

[Pro Civitate]

Matthew Boulton Plaque

Mmmm, it would be nice to recreate that plaque for the 200th anniversary of Boulton's death (18th August 1808)

 

[O.C.]

At least Boultons grave is being looked after unlike Chamberlains but thats another story on another thread...most of Birmingham's treasure's have been plundered and destroyed and it quite amazing how much of our history and artifacts have ended up in other cities museums in England and across the World

 

[Pro Civitate]

Mathew Boulton Plaque

Whoops 18th August 1808) should read 18th August 1808 - next year!

 

[Wendy]

Again it is so nice to read this thread with so much information. Two people with the same aim, and sometimes differing viewpoints. These sort of threads certainly make people think and hopefully act. Great!

 

[Pro Civitate]

Sir Robert Peel

Here is the statue of Peel at the top of New Street where it stood 1855-1925. Then it was moved to Calthorpe park and in 1963 it was split up and the plinth stayed where it was, whilst the statue stands on the Pershore Road. Crazy!

Bring it back into the centre I say - but Thomas Attwood is the next prioritry!

 

[Pro Civitate]

Thomas Attwood

Very sad...

 

[Wendy]

Oh dear Stephen that is so sad! I know graffiti is everywhere but this is just awful. Is this statue in Highgate Park? The one on the library steps is lovely. As you said these statues should be in the city not parks. Wait till Charlie sees this one she will be so mad! Wendy

 

[Pro Civitate]

Sadness

No, Edward VII is in Highgate Park - this is just up the road in Larches Green, a recreation ground in Sparkhill that was once occupied by a house that Attwood lived in called "The Larches", which is off the Highgate Road, near Ladypool Road.

 

[Wendy]

Thank you for that, yes I should have realised he was in Sparkhill where his house was.............I must be getting old!

 

[O.C.]

I was recently in Manchester City centre and saw how proud they are of their statues and when I see photo's like this it makes me cringe...
Whoever put that statue on 'That' plinth ? needs shooting into space with no return ticket....Birmingham has had the pride knocked out of her for years as our heritage has been slowly dismantled and tucked away in corners till its forgot then slyly disposed of...in years to come someone will write how one of the great cities in England Birmingham forefront of the Industrial Revolution of the World,systematical over a period of a few years destroyed their great heritage to their shame. Its as though the City father are ashamed to have ancient monuments and statues on their hands. future generations will look back on this period in our history and see it as a time shamefully marked by the destruction and neglect of our Monuments some which already have been lost forever..
I applaud anyone that makes a stand and their voice heard to whats going on around us....and to add to that most of the statues were bought with public money.........I go to Hospital every few weeks and marvel at what they spend in the way of art in their gardens corridors and wards.... would it not be better to put them here instead of parks were they are vandalized

 

[Wendy]

Not only Manchester look at Europe their statues are maintained as well! I agree with everything you have said. I am not sure if it would be feasable to put them in Hospital gardens but I suppose if the foundation is strong enough why not.

 

[O.C.]

Wendy, I just mentioned Hospitals Gardens as just one place but if I had a choice it would be this.
If Liverpool can change over to John Lennon Airport, and France to Charles De Gaulle Airport and America to John F Kennedy why oh why do we have Birmingham International ? with a monument stuck on an island that no one knows what it is or care as they approach the airport. would it not make more sense and give us a bit of pride to rename it Joseph Chamberlain or James Watt Airport and put a statue on the approach to the airport...the same goes for Birmingham International Railway station and it would avoid all the confusion of getting mixed up with New St, Station...........but all this is to simple and they would rather pay out tremendous amounts of money to private consultation firms to come up with a stupid logo or name which a child could give them...

 

[Wendy]

I know I sound like a broken record but you are so right. I have thought about the statues being put on major road islands as they are less likely to be vandalised, and would be seen! A good mix of old and new. Also a good talking point. I remember when my lads were younger, there is a wonderful statue on a main road in Welsh villiage we would pass. The boys asked who it was so we looked it up. It just proves these statues bring history alive if you can see them!

 

[mike jenks]

Great Statues

Hi

Here goes the Iron Man has alway's been difficult
for most people.
To me it represents the two halves of Birmingham
and covers my Family very well.
My son spent years at the Birmingham Musical School
close by and my Wife spent years at the Birmingham
Art School close by.
With my Industrial side all over the City i think this
a great reprentation of my little family.

Mike Jenks

 

[O.C.]

TSB bank were responsible for the Anthony Gormley's Iron Man sculpture Mike and it was made by Firth Rixson Castings Ltd. Willenhall and donated to the City to try to encourage public sculture..some people hate it and some people love it, as in all things. Erected outside the TSB offices at the top of New Street (which I dont think are their anymore ) in 1993

 

[O.C.]

Stephen feel free to use the enclosed photo taken 1937-8 of St George

 

[Pro Civitate]

St George's Column

Excellent. Not seen that pic before. Thanks.

 

[Rod]

Mike Ive expressed lots of times on this forum of my liking for the Iron Man, I think he's brilliant, love him or hate him, he's a part of Brum. The important thing I reckon, is the fact that these statues and peices of art are actually there on the streets to be seen and not kept in storage away from the greater public. At the risk of repeating myself again, I also felt very strongly about the Forward statue by Ray Mason? being burned some little time ago now, there were many that welcomed it's end, but I felt that to be a dreadful attitude, it spoke volumes about the people who expressed it. I liked it, but I wasnt to sure about the material it was made of, I think it was resin though? I thought it had a good feel about it, and represented the working people of Birmingham. I might well be mistaken, but there might be a model, or a very similar but smaller peice of artwork in storage at Dollman Street, but then maybe my mind plays tricks?

Nice picture Graham.

 

[O.C.]

Rod, The Forward sculpture was I think doomed from the start with the material it was made from and lessons should have been learned from the disastrous lorry cab fires caused by the flammable fiberglass which the Forward sculpture was made from but not only was it made from fiberglass it was also painted in cream and pink paint ...a disaster waiting to happen which was a terrible shame as the artist Birmingham born Raymond Mason in among all the people had put in Josiah Mason and Joseph Chamberlain etc.as well as depicting the great workers and artisans through the centuries who made Brum great.
I have worked with fiberglass a lot and know all about the so called fire-retarding resins that were used in the 1980-90's which never did the job they were suppose to do....and I am pretty certain it would not have stood the test of time ..but looking at our great statues neither have they unless put high on a plinth out of harms way.....

 

[mike jenks]

Great Statues

Hi

Still upset about the loss of the Forward Statue.
Each time you visted it there was alway's a new bit
to look at.
Cromwell's judgement on the structure is correct
but I was staggarded that the moulds it was produced
from were not available for a reproduction. Typical
council cock up. Did we take out Insurance?
I dont think they are produced by the
lost wax process. Fibre glass is normally either sprayed in
or sheet applied to some pattern mould. Once had
a visit around Reliant at Tamworth when we were looking
at Plastic Car for Longbridge. There patterns were there
and produced thousands of Bodies.
This object would have had many patterns then the
objects would have been built up.
Sad day all over box of matches.

Mike Jenks