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What Happened To The Lake House In Boldmere

C

Cardean17

proper brummie kid
Hi
I am new to the site so apologies in advance for any errors..I am hoping I am on the right forum and if not someone may point me in the right direction. I am researching my family history and am up against a brick wall. My great-great-grandfather lived in a house called the Lake House on Chester Road in Boldmere. He was Captain Benjamin Holloway and lived there up to 1883 shortly after the house was occupied by a William Randle who became the Lord Mayor of Sutton Coldfield. Around 1935 or so the maps and records show the house was gone. I think the site where it stood is now 334-338 Chester Road and Lake House road next to these are named after the Old house. My question and hopes are that someone, somewhere must know something about the old house and why it disappeared, a photo, a plan or stories passed down. My mother has dementia and was the only person that can tell me about it as she once told me of a big house on Chester Road with a big circular drive. I have found the census records etc and I can't get to Sutton Library as it is shut and I live in Devon. Sorry if this is a bit long but any help is would be much appreciated....thank you
 
Hi Cardean,

Welcome to the forum. Don't worry about errors and mis-postings, I'm still doing that after 10 years!

I'm trying to find out about that area too. I don't think the Lake House could have been there for very long as in 1841 there was a settlement on the lake referred to on the census as 'Baldmore Lake' which I think must have been a hamlet. This is quite a strange area as although it's technically in Sutton Coldfield it gets ignored largely in any books etc and was previously known as 'The Waste'. I had spotted your Captain Benjamin and am familiar with William Randle who was a big-wig in our church and is buried there.

Our local library is closed at the moment and as it's under threat of closure nobody is very keen to get maps etc out of storage (understandably I suppose). However, I am going to join the Local History Society, which meets there, as soon as it opens (possibly in April) as I believe they will have better access to records. I have made a note of your interest and will let you know if anything comes up.

My interest lies in the pub which stood near to Lake House, now called The Greyhound, and also the building of the turnpike road, now known as Chester Road.

Good Luck.
 
Hi Thanks for your reply..It is an ongoing challenge especially from here in Devon. I have made some headway though and I have the Census' from 1871/81 showing my family in the house and it is clearly marked as the Lake House Chester Road. I also have the following Census' (1891/1901/1911) along with the Probate information for William Randle which shows him as dying in the Lake House in 1920. I have maps (from 1824 to 1921) which show the house or what we believe to be, sitting right on the site of the now Lakehouse road and the previous mentioned houses on the Chester Road. I have spent sometime superimposing the maps with the modern satellite image and the semi circular drive can still be partially seen today from the air which is clearly shown on the maps pre 1935. This would link with what my mother once told me that there was a big circular drive. I think the Lake House name was given from nearby Baldmere Lake but not in the same place, and Lake House Road was named after the house itself. If you are interested I can give you a contact email and I can send any information I have. There is a history research group in Sutton Coldfield who are also on the case for me. As you can see from this information and the fact the Mayor lived in the house there must be some record of some sort. Council records must show demolition or planning permission to build the new (1935 ish) houses on the site..Captain Benjamin is in a family Crypt in the church you mention. I looked at it on a recent and rare trip to Birmingham. Thanks again
 
Hello Penelope,

I don't remember the Lake House, but there is a new building, a retirement home I think, called Lake House Court between Court Lane and Lakehouse Road.

I used to visit The Greyhound in the 1960's - did it close for a while and re-open?

G
 
Hi Cardean17, I'd love a copy of the 1871 census please. I'll send you a private message with my email address. I've been looking at the 2nd Dragoon Guards (Queen's Bays) and there is a site called Firing Line with details of Capt Benjamin. However, it's quite dear! His record spans 1858 to 1883. I wondered if that date was significant? Do you have a date of death for Benjamin? I also found a death in Aston in 1883 (this part of Sutton was within Aston at this time). The Local History group you mention is probably the one I'm going to join. Do you have a contact name and I can speak to them when it re-opens.

I noticed the age gap between Benjamin and Rebecca. Is she his second wife?

Please send me directions for the Holloway tomb and I'll go and say hello. We're always looking for interesting stories to put in the magazine and have a page entitled 'From the churchyard'.

Big Gee - I'm trying to establish exactly where the lake was (and so Lake House) and think the retirement home is probably built on the former site.
There's a thread for the Greyhound on the site but you've probably read it.
It has recently closed after a re-furb. Haven't been in but it was my dad's local for years. I understood from one of the painters that there was a lot of orange and green.
 
This is from a 1903 map close to where 338 Boldmere road is now and shows the layout of a house / building with a circular Drive, on a 1914 map the same building appears to have been extended - sorry but haven't found anything on the house itself
 

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Re the lake. The following has been pieced together from different searches and may explain why the lake is so elusive.

Lying between the Chester Road and Court Lane was a seasonal lake which used to form on either side of Chester Road, known variously as Bowen Pool, Baldmoor, Baldmoor Lake and Bolemore Lake, from which the parish took its name. The word moor derives from Anglo-Saxon/ Middle English and means 'boggy land'. The other element may derive from the Middle English word bald meaning 'a white patch' which gives us the modern meaning of the word. Very little is known of the lakes origins or of its disappearance. No lake is shown on Speeds 1610 map.The lake is not shown on the 1834 Ordnance Survey map. The 1841 census lists a small settlement named as ‘Baldmoor Lake’ and comprising ten dwellings and a malt house ( later the Oscott Tavern). The lake does not appear on later maps but the census of 1881 shows a Captain Holloway and his family living at ‘Lake House, Chester Road’.
 
mbenne, thank you for the information. I haven't seen it described as a 'seasonal' lake before and that could explain a few things. On one map I have the lake 'above' the road and on another the road goes through the middle. Another source mentions that this was a man-made lake but I have found no reason so far (mill or forge etc.) for this.
On the 1841 census one household in the Baldmore Lake hamlet lists a 'publican' as head and I have always presumed this to be what is now the Greyhound. The present pub is obviously a later building. Where the Oscott Tavern used to stand was a farm called Cooks Farm and I couldn't find anything to say there was a malthouse there before although there is a small very old building, still there, as part of Halls Garden Centre. The Middletons lived in the tavern later in the 1800's.
 
In the inclosure of Sutton Coldfield in 1826, Lot 10 was "another parcel of land, including a portion of valuable land called Baldmore lake'"
 
Hi Thanks to you all regarding my post. I have the corn rent map from 1824 which shows a black spot exactly where Lakehouse road is now. I have looked at maps throughout up until the current Google Satellite images and as mentioned the maps of around the late 1890's show what I am confident is the Lake House. My mother passed down the story of a large house in the family which was on the Chester Road and had a circular drive. Comparing the map and the modern image you can see that 334 to 338 Chester Road (3 large 5 bedroom houses) sits on what is clearly part of the same semi circular drive. I am sure this is where the Lake House was and the land to it is now Lake House Road. Maps of around 1935 on, show the three houses mentioned with Lake House Road. I initially thought the house may have been bombed but considering that map then it isn't possible. So that leaves me with my original question What happened to the Lake House?
 

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Pedrocut said:
January 1869 Cork Constitution...a mention of Benji ?


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Hi Yes this is a reference to my Greatx2 grandfather. This has been seperate work to finding out about the Lake House where he lived. He started as a private in 1836 in the 15th Hussars (Cavalry) then worked his way up to Quartermaster and officer status, then in 1860 joined the 2nd Dragoon Guards as Quartermaster and retired to the lake house in 1869 as a Captain.
 
Cardean17 said:
Hi Yes this is a reference to my Greatx2 grandfather. This has been seperate work to finding out about the Lake House where he lived. He started as a private in 1836 in the 15th Hussars (Cavalry) then worked his way up to Quartermaster and officer status, then in 1860 joined the 2nd Dragoon Guards as Quartermaster and retired to the lake house in 1869 as a Captain.
Click to expand...
In very heavy fogs at the end of the war as I was walking home to Court Lane from Green Lanes School, you would often get lorries that had been using the nearside curb as their guide turn into Lakehouse Road, because of the wide entrance, on a very foggy night, you could not see the far side kerb if you were on the kerb the Wylde Green side of the road, they often realised before they went to far and were able to reverse and turn out back onto the Chester Road. I believe that sometimes someone with a torch would lead them across.
Bob
 
Cardean17, I've been looking at the houses in Lakehouse Road and they appear to have been built later than ours. Our road was developed 'between the wars' and built in 1934. Minnie Mary Randle had moved to an address in Wylde Green by 1941 when she died. I will see if I can find out when they were built.
 
Lake House 1937.JPG Hi Yes I have looked into Lake House road houses and used a little trick I picked up from another site. That is to go onto a property insurance site (I think it was esure) and fill in the basic information for the house as if you were insuring it etc and at some point it will come to you with the date it was built which showed them as 1945...or so I thought because I have recently found a map from 1937 which I put on this site and added to this reply, which shows all the houses along Lake House Road and the three houses on Chester Road at the start of Lake House road where I think the Lake house was.

I have traced Minnie Randle to, and the house she moved to on google maps/street viewer in Wylde Green ironically has a semi circular drive and looks very much like I imagine the Lake House to have been. I tracked the probate for them and William Randle left the equivalent of £1.5 million to Minnie (possible value of the Lake House?). When she died in Wylde Green she had £6.5 million (both amounts are in modern day equivalents). Did she sell the Lake House and the land for developers to build Lake House Road etc, the money and the years seem to fit? I have ordered the full will of Captain Benjamin so I can see who he left the house to and I might be able to track from there. I also checked the link you gave me yesterday and I phoned the chap up and said what am I getting for my £40 as I know quite a bit already, about his army career, so he has kindly agreed to do a provisional check to see if there is any info of use before I pay...Sorry for my long replies but I learnt to type many years ago in the Navy so I tend to go on in print...Thanks again for your time and will speak again soon
 
Hi Cardean17,
Don't apologise for long replies - I find them really interesting. Dad was in the navy but I don't think he ever learned to type - he always said he had 'sausage fingers' so don't expect he'd have been very good anyway.
That was a really good tip you included about the insurance and age of the houses, I shall remember that. I live quite near to Lakehouse Road and I've been racking my brains as to who I know in the road but haven't come up with anyone yet.
There were quite a few very large houses on this stretch of the Chester Road which were demolished to make way for small housing developments. I believe there was a huge shortage of servants after WW1 and a certain way of life had changed for ever.
I'm still trying to find out when the Chester Road was straightened. I think it may have been when this road was turnpiked in 1760. This seems to be the obvious answer but I haven't found any proof yet.
Do you know who built the Lake House and when it was built? New Oscott College would have been further up the road and Fernwood House opposite but I think the area would still have had a definite rural feel about it.
 
Hi
The building and demolition of the house is my final part of this bit I am looking into. Sadly I don't have a clue who built it, what it looked like (apart from the circular drive), that's what is so frustrating because it was obviously there and there has to be some record somewhere. I have tried to go for the title deeds but get bogged down in the confusing website and they usually ask for a post code of the property which I can't give them. Sooner or later someone, of around my mothers age, will pop up and say they remember it and what it looked like. The problem is of course is that if I am right it has been gone for over 80 years..I won't give up though.

Did you take a look at the aerial photo of the three houses on Chester road and if you zoom in you can see the left hand side of the circular drive, and using the maps you can see a thin strip of it on the right so therefore I am sure that's the spot, and as the map shows the house covered all three of the new houses and a bit more so it was fairly big I suppose. I'm guessing the Mayor would have probably lived in a big house to, so that fits.

I like this family research stuff but it can be time consuming and this is only one tip of the iceberg for me I'm afraid as my mother used to inform me that a great aunt was in the Chanel family..We also had a shop in Mill St Sutton Coldfield (a tailors) and a provisions shop in Station Road Erdington all of these are proving equally a pain in the neck for photographic evidence etc...anyway all for now
 
Hi thanks for the link. I have seen this map but looking at it again I just figured out how to use the tools on there. I measured the map and did the same with the modern houses on the site and the measurements of the main part of the house appear to have beeen 35m x 12m, and the three houses on the site now are also that size.

One thing which I have had no success with whatsoever are the land parcel numbers I have several maps throughout the years and the land parcel numbers have of course changed over time from the original tithe's but I have never managed to put an owners name to the numbers etc, again there must be some record of this somewhere...
Thanks again for your kind help
 
Hi Penelope
Just read your link. I actually have a very very vague memory of the shop in Erdington. It apparently used to be in Sheep Street which became Station Road. My family's name for that shop was Tilley and though I can't remember exactly where the shop is/was, as I was quite small, but it had a band painted high up along the brickwall on the open side of the shop which I think said Tilley's on it...It was there for many years after the shop but I can't find anything now on google maps...
 
Lakehouse Road is in the 1939 'census with 20 plus houses in it, but I also found an extremely interesting Goosemore Lane entry on Google and there is mention of Lakehouse Road in that. Now we come to the vague remembrances, my mother used to go to a hairdresser on Chester Road, somewhere near the coal merchants on Chester Road and on more than one occassion we went to a house in Lakehouse Road with a lady friend of my mother's and I can remember that it was very like the house at 369 Court Lane where I was born. The look is what I now call affluent 1930s middle class home, hall with coatstand, stairs in the hall, front room, sitting room, lots of dark brown wood. The hairdressers and coal merchants were in the older houses between Lakehouse Road and Beech or Sycamore Road, I can't remember which came first.
Bob
 
Cardean17, at risk of straying too far off topic (a thing I am quite frequently guilty of) I'm sure that someone will look up your Station Road relatives in a Kelly's Directory for you. Just post a new thread when you have time.

Back to topic and your lack of success matching numbers to names - I have had similar problems. The thing that fascinates me is that the 1851 tithe map completely ignores the land on which your families house was built. The Coldfield as a whole was left blank and yet we know from earlier posts on this thread that the Lakehouse site was for sale in 1826 together with the adjacent land.
 
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Cardean17, no new information as yet but I've just been re-reading this thread and thought how romantic 'retired to the Lake House' sounded.

Pedrocut - your post #9 - where did the inclosure information of 1826 come from please?
#11 - this post is really informative for reasons which apply more to my interest than Cardean17's but which newspaper did this advert appear in please? I noticed that it says 'Particulars of the lots will be given in next weeks paper' and I'd like to follow this up.
 
Hi again Lady P, yes I suppose it does sound a bit romantic, I wonder if Sarah was with him for all the years in India. I find the more you look the more questions. For instance before Benjamin joined the army I have him and his family living in Deritend which I think was not a well off area, and even allowing for him rising through the ranks and retiring I can't see how could have afforded the Lake House...unless of course I am getting it all wrong and it was the size of a garden shed, but I guess the Mayor wouldn't live in a garden shed so I will stack on my current track...To be honest I think, frustratingly so, that we will only get some answers when the Library opens again..if....all for now
 
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