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looks right to me mike...archway is still there but bricked up..buildings to the left of it now gone and replaced with light industrial units...the buildings you can see in the distance running along vyse st gone and replaced by the multi car park and the large building on the right must be the big peg...i was down that way a few days back but could not get any photos due to the amount of cars and lorries parked outside the units and in front of the old archway...
lyn
lyn
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Correct,
and it is still there this afternoon albeit re-purposed.
Cannot quite get through to the other side to see the exit, might be visible from the station/train but the retaining walls and battered brickwork is still in good nick.
Would really like to find an old pic of the Icknield Street bridge from the Great Western pub side.
and it is still there this afternoon albeit re-purposed.
Cannot quite get through to the other side to see the exit, might be visible from the station/train but the retaining walls and battered brickwork is still in good nick.
Would really like to find an old pic of the Icknield Street bridge from the Great Western pub side.
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Gosh Mike, that is almost the same shot as previous, but after the place has closed - Exactly as it was early 1972!
Superb.
Brian
Superb.
Brian
Thanks Lyn,
Most of the references in the Icknield Street thread were around 2009 and the links to pics became broken during the Great Hack.
So far plenty of the Pitsford Road end but, so far at least, only one showing the entrance to Hockley Station with the photographer's back to the Great Western pub.
Maybe this was never its most glamorous side and the fact it would have always been in the shade made photography difficult back then.
No matter the drawing found recently at Kew provides me good detail of the bridge in elevation and John Pigott Smith's 1856 survey tells me about the shape of the station, the bridge span and other useful detail which includes a form of remedial balustrade along the north face of the bridge span constructed from timber no doubt to prevent early travellers falling off the platform onto Icknield Street below.
Early elf'n safety......
Hopefully I will soon be able put up a pic of what I believe this part of town looked like around November 1854
Most of the references in the Icknield Street thread were around 2009 and the links to pics became broken during the Great Hack.
So far plenty of the Pitsford Road end but, so far at least, only one showing the entrance to Hockley Station with the photographer's back to the Great Western pub.
Maybe this was never its most glamorous side and the fact it would have always been in the shade made photography difficult back then.
No matter the drawing found recently at Kew provides me good detail of the bridge in elevation and John Pigott Smith's 1856 survey tells me about the shape of the station, the bridge span and other useful detail which includes a form of remedial balustrade along the north face of the bridge span constructed from timber no doubt to prevent early travellers falling off the platform onto Icknield Street below.
Early elf'n safety......
Hopefully I will soon be able put up a pic of what I believe this part of town looked like around November 1854
speedwing have you looked at the icknield st alert thread...if not go to post 261 on that thread..this is where a few of us started reposting images lost due to the hacking...here is the link
lyn
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10620&page=18&highlight=icknield+street+alert
lyn
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10620&page=18&highlight=icknield+street+alert
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rosie
brummie
I wondered if there's anything to help you on www.britainfromabove.org.uk after you register you can zoom in. Apologies if you already know but it's interesting anyway!!
rosie.
rosie.
hi lynn
that old pic of ickneild street by the libary is a cracking picture especialy showing us them shops
starting with walter smiths the butchers my old friend terry became the manager there after learning the trade ;eventualy went to there branch in the market hall as manager then there was old parsons the pawn brokers ;whom where i took my grand fatherts pocket watch
it was rolled gold i got ten pounds for it; mom soon got it back as it was worth alot more than that
then there was sid clegg whom openened up the shop net door to start with he only sold potoes in and out side the shop
with every named pototes yopu could by then he started to sell fruit and veg after 4 months he brought veg and fruit in
he made a fortune and a family member of the hansons family [ sid ] one of his daughters from aberdeen street married into the family
and after two years they sold up and went to live and operate in weoly castle then the drive way to the back of the shops then the was the ironmongers and next to the iron mongers was stoddards the butchers which was right outside was the number eight bus stop
going to hockley brook and of course it was a very big thriving area when bulpitts was there especialy in the fiftys and sixtys befor reduntancies
best wishes astonian; alan;
that old pic of ickneild street by the libary is a cracking picture especialy showing us them shops
starting with walter smiths the butchers my old friend terry became the manager there after learning the trade ;eventualy went to there branch in the market hall as manager then there was old parsons the pawn brokers ;whom where i took my grand fatherts pocket watch
it was rolled gold i got ten pounds for it; mom soon got it back as it was worth alot more than that
then there was sid clegg whom openened up the shop net door to start with he only sold potoes in and out side the shop
with every named pototes yopu could by then he started to sell fruit and veg after 4 months he brought veg and fruit in
he made a fortune and a family member of the hansons family [ sid ] one of his daughters from aberdeen street married into the family
and after two years they sold up and went to live and operate in weoly castle then the drive way to the back of the shops then the was the ironmongers and next to the iron mongers was stoddards the butchers which was right outside was the number eight bus stop
going to hockley brook and of course it was a very big thriving area when bulpitts was there especialy in the fiftys and sixtys befor reduntancies
best wishes astonian; alan;
HImike and speedwig
As some one said when they nicked the pictures and i can only presume the whole lot they knew what they was doing
and my daughter whom bought me a couple of picts of yester years for my birthday i asked where she got them from
she said the inter net and mainly from spain and america ;where there is alot of dealers trading from
the guy she dealt with said what do you want i have got every think; stil i will go off topic as i do not want to be brought to book
over it again ;but what i was gonna say was as lynn said there was a picture of the railway siding in pitford street
and the yard entrance it was a masive yard and i also done a thread about it showing the old railway transport wagons
parked up in there and these old BRS wagons before BRS changed to proper big green wagons and there trailers
but not only them the big compasny of yester years , but i still think they are around today was pickfords removal vans and lorries
was parked in there at week ends and pickfords had a smal office directly facing the railway yard with big iron fairys as well was stored in that yard as well but not one of the pics showed us that tunnel i must have passed it a thousand times over the years
as some one said today its a biog surprize to learn of it today ; best wishes Astonian
i do not want anther repremand on the carpets again
As some one said when they nicked the pictures and i can only presume the whole lot they knew what they was doing
and my daughter whom bought me a couple of picts of yester years for my birthday i asked where she got them from
she said the inter net and mainly from spain and america ;where there is alot of dealers trading from
the guy she dealt with said what do you want i have got every think; stil i will go off topic as i do not want to be brought to book
over it again ;but what i was gonna say was as lynn said there was a picture of the railway siding in pitford street
and the yard entrance it was a masive yard and i also done a thread about it showing the old railway transport wagons
parked up in there and these old BRS wagons before BRS changed to proper big green wagons and there trailers
but not only them the big compasny of yester years , but i still think they are around today was pickfords removal vans and lorries
was parked in there at week ends and pickfords had a smal office directly facing the railway yard with big iron fairys as well was stored in that yard as well but not one of the pics showed us that tunnel i must have passed it a thousand times over the years
as some one said today its a biog surprize to learn of it today ; best wishes Astonian
i do not want anther repremand on the carpets again
B
BernardR
Guest
A point of clarification particularly for new members: Despite what you may read we had no pictures stolen or removed from the forum. We did however have an attempt at hacking into the forum the end result of which was that access to the previously uploaded pictures was lost or removed.
BernardR
BernardR
Thanks to all for your useful suggestions.
I doubt finding any useful visual stuff today which would show what was going on in 1846 though I have some hope in some records regarding Hockley station in 1897 held at the LoB.
Following Mike's suggestion of looking what English Heritage may have to offer, I found this on their search engine which suggest perhaps infers the tunnel/subway is in fact listed.
I doubt finding any useful visual stuff today which would show what was going on in 1846 though I have some hope in some records regarding Hockley station in 1897 held at the LoB.
Following Mike's suggestion of looking what English Heritage may have to offer, I found this on their search engine which suggest perhaps infers the tunnel/subway is in fact listed.
Thanks for this Mike, EH informed me this record was a single postcard from a larger collection which from today's (15/04/14) received reference print dated 15/04/1958 shows the later station and remote island platform.
The later station on the same site Circa 1920 which replaced the original 1854 wooden structure most probably designed by T H Bertram in the style of that built at Banbury and detailed on the OS First edition map.
Bertram was Brunel's Resident Engineer on the Oxford and Birmingham railway and was involved with the completion of the Birmingham Wolverhampton & Dudley line.
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Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Speedwing some pics of Hockley from railways views on https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrhd1657.htm
Brian
Brian
Thank you Brian,
Your link is to a picture of the "new" Hockley station constructed around 1898 when the original lines were re-aligned to allow for an additional island platform.
Comparing the 1889 1:250 First Edition with the later 1904-5 1:2500 Staffordshire edition there are distinct features which identifies the linked photo to the latter and subsequent surveys.
My bones tell me a timber structure strongly similar to that built at Banbury circa 1852 was erected here and lasted until the end of the 19th Century before being replaced with a more durable brick building and extended underground walkways to link the new platforms.
This comparison between the OS First editions of both Hockley and Banbury suggests the dimensions of the main train sheds to be similar Hockley 172.5 ft x 68 ft and Banbury 163 ft x 62 ft
This period view showing the main train shed at Banbury toward the end of the 19th C
Detail view shows the timber construction and creature comfortsThis period was when Brunel's various engineers were active on a variety of local projects in the City including the likes of Samuel Yockney and Francis Isherwood West who engineered the cut and cover tunnels north of Digbeth through Snow Hill to the Jewellery Quarter and Henry Wakefield "parachuted in" to sort out McClean's weak bridges which prevented the initial opening of the line up to Wolverhampton.
I say 1898 because there are a group of microfiches detailing bridge girders over Icknield Street held by Network Rail.
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I was most interested to see that picture of Hockley station and the description . My shool was evacuated in 1939 and we went up the stairs to the platform to get on a train. From what I recakll the stirs wer enon a corner Probably Park rd and almost on Icknield st. By puer coincidence I later came to work at Hocley Goods. Pitsford st as a van drivers mate called avan guard and worked from Pitsford St and also the goods yard out on the other side from the covered in goods shed.
When I called in there to haqve a loo qround from what I think was Park st I was very surprised to see just a lqarge open space where all the lines wre . The gate whe4r all the lorries came out,just one gate with weighbridge ,was still there .
I also recall the bridge over Icknield st and a Corporation bus that had tried to drive under near Pitsford st end It must have been a strager on the route as it ripped off the top of the bus. There was a pub onthe other caorner and a No 8 bus stup close by the cemetry front railings and I used to get the bus there up to monument rd and get off just one stopp before the Ivy7 Bush pub
I tink the pub near Pitfodes st was called The Commercial I am now 87 but remenber my days -at GWR Hocly as a Van guard Goods Porter and a shunter for 6 weeks All went well for me as shunter and I used to travel up to Soho Station on the engine with a few trucks. The line was a dead end at Soho Handsworth and we had to Flyshunt the goods trucks to get the engine to the other end s. I beleio we could sort out the trucks onto the several lines that were in the yard there
I beleive that shunting as it was then with a pole and a hook on the is not done these days. It was aq prtetty risky job and I suppose OCHS would frown upon it Cheers all Joe
When I called in there to haqve a loo qround from what I think was Park st I was very surprised to see just a lqarge open space where all the lines wre . The gate whe4r all the lorries came out,just one gate with weighbridge ,was still there .
I also recall the bridge over Icknield st and a Corporation bus that had tried to drive under near Pitsford st end It must have been a strager on the route as it ripped off the top of the bus. There was a pub onthe other caorner and a No 8 bus stup close by the cemetry front railings and I used to get the bus there up to monument rd and get off just one stopp before the Ivy7 Bush pub
I tink the pub near Pitfodes st was called The Commercial I am now 87 but remenber my days -at GWR Hocly as a Van guard Goods Porter and a shunter for 6 weeks All went well for me as shunter and I used to travel up to Soho Station on the engine with a few trucks. The line was a dead end at Soho Handsworth and we had to Flyshunt the goods trucks to get the engine to the other end s. I beleio we could sort out the trucks onto the several lines that were in the yard there
I beleive that shunting as it was then with a pole and a hook on the is not done these days. It was aq prtetty risky job and I suppose OCHS would frown upon it Cheers all Joe
Many thanks mikejee for posting this picture I had Google Earth look at the GoodsShed area and the Yards onthe All Saints Rd side of the Tranship Shed but see it is all gone.It looks like there is just a patch of green there now. Does anyone know when the yards were ripped up? I see buildings there now with lots of cars so it loooooks like must be ofices Old Joe
Further to my saying the yards were ripped up and the Tranship shed gone leaves me wondering how they sorted all the stuff out tha used to be sent there.From memory there wer 6 lines in the shed with drawbriges in the centrewhich were raised to allow the trucks to be takent out tochange them each day A huge amount of goods were collected also each day bytrucks and drays from all around Brum What happened to all of this stuff when Hocley Goods was closed?????????/// Old joe
Key Hill Brian
Proud Brummie
Joe,
There was a an almost similar sized operation at Moor St Station - great good shed underneath the railway station with lifts for wagons to up and down in - which served the Markets. There were vehicles entrances in the walls under the bridge in park St - later used as a car park.
Virtually all this traffic later went to Lorries.
The railway lost the majority of it to road transport, although they moved what was left to Lawley St. There were massive sheds there, now virtually all gone, and again a temporary car park, although some sheds are now Crown storage units. The stuff they switched to freightliner containers is still there in Landor St, but wagon load trafficwas continually shrinking - there were some remaining scrap metal & coal in theto the 1980's, but it became very uneconomical, and was gradually converted to road.
Hockley goods sheds on Pitsford St between the cemeteries are also new lightweight Industrial warehouses.
Brian
There was a an almost similar sized operation at Moor St Station - great good shed underneath the railway station with lifts for wagons to up and down in - which served the Markets. There were vehicles entrances in the walls under the bridge in park St - later used as a car park.
Virtually all this traffic later went to Lorries.
The railway lost the majority of it to road transport, although they moved what was left to Lawley St. There were massive sheds there, now virtually all gone, and again a temporary car park, although some sheds are now Crown storage units. The stuff they switched to freightliner containers is still there in Landor St, but wagon load trafficwas continually shrinking - there were some remaining scrap metal & coal in theto the 1980's, but it became very uneconomical, and was gradually converted to road.
Hockley goods sheds on Pitsford St between the cemeteries are also new lightweight Industrial warehouses.
Brian
I would guess that it's final demise came at or about the same period of the Middle Ring Road development in the eighties, though I suspect the yard had fallen into disuse during the mid sixties for the reasons given by Brian. Some of the smaller industrial units at the All Saints end and along the roadway leading to the canal dock are all originals.
My interest is how this all came about in the mid 1800's.
The following clip from LS7/672 at the LoB gives something of a clue as to how the Inward shed site was developed on land already identified for burial grounds and to the extent of Sir Thomas Gooch's lands.
It is part of a long linen drawing roll detailing land ownership and use from about 1848 onward and shows land leased or purchased by the Birmingham, Wolverhampton and Dudley and Great Western Railway companies in the blue shaded area with the proposed railway lines in pink.
For orientation Pitsford Street runs left to right along the upper edge with the land allocated to the Birmingham Church of England Cemetery Company, Vyse Street top to bottom on the left side and Icknield Street top to bottom on the right side.
The lower boundary marking the trackbed on the southern side of the General Cemetery.
Interesting to me is the fact that lands on either side of Icknield Street were originally at the same level as the road which suggests that the spoil from cutting the tunnels between Moor Street and Vyse Street were used to raise the whole site to the rail level.
Parcel 861 describes the boundary of the land today occupied by the surviving road tunnel referred to previously so perhaps there was some dispute that required its construction.
The drawing also confirms all my previous thoughts on the development of Hockley Station.
I am really interested in the Victorian symbolism seen in cemeteries, and wanted some examples for a talk on the subject I am doing in September this year. There are a few I really like;
1. Urn - Draped and empty symbolising death
2. Sheaf of wheat - Denoting someone who has live a long an fruitful life; fruitfulness harvested
3. Book - A symbol of faith
4. I just happened to like this one, gone to heaven; it must have been important o the family of the deceased person
View attachment 92219View attachment 92220View attachment 92221View attachment 92222
1. Urn - Draped and empty symbolising death
2. Sheaf of wheat - Denoting someone who has live a long an fruitful life; fruitfulness harvested
3. Book - A symbol of faith
4. I just happened to like this one, gone to heaven; it must have been important o the family of the deceased person
View attachment 92219View attachment 92220View attachment 92221View attachment 92222
Finally, any good museum should inform, leave you asking question and change the way you think about the past. Certainly Warstone has all of these attributes in my opinion; I spotted this really interesting headstone, that to me told a tail of a family.
I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts about this; but the way I saw it was:
Alfred Spragg lost his wife Alice in 1892, his two daughters, Beatrice 20 and Ida 38 in 1900 and 1923. It looks like at some stage in his life he married Martha 64, who died 1932. Alfred himself finally died in 1935 at the ripe old age of 85.
I have seen other like this, I do like to look out for them
View attachment 92223
I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts about this; but the way I saw it was:
Alfred Spragg lost his wife Alice in 1892, his two daughters, Beatrice 20 and Ida 38 in 1900 and 1923. It looks like at some stage in his life he married Martha 64, who died 1932. Alfred himself finally died in 1935 at the ripe old age of 85.
I have seen other like this, I do like to look out for them
View attachment 92223
smallheathboy
Brummie babby
Hi mikejee,
The commercial Inn, could you give me the location please.
Thanks,
smallheathboy.
The commercial Inn, could you give me the location please.
Thanks,
smallheathboy.
smallheathboy
Brummie babby
Thank you, mikejee, very helpful, and a quick reply,
smallheathboy.
smallheathboy.
