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The Lost Smiths

S

smithsquared

Brummie Once Removed
I am travelling up to Birmingham next Friday, with my sister, to visit some long lost relatives and believe that our Grand Parents Lucy Smith (died 1929) and James Joseph Smith (died 1938) are both buried at Key Hill. Do you know who need to contact to find out if we can go and try and find the graves. Is there such a thing as plan that makes finding them easier?

Hope you can help

Bob
 
Hi Bob I have checked the indexes for Key Hill Cemetery and could not find the people you mention on those dates.
 
Bob I will double check with my friend in case I have any Smiths missing. I will get back to you.

Wendy,
 
HI Bob,

Had a quick look to double check and cannot find any James Joseph 1938.

I have a possible Lucy Smith in Key Hill. P355 grave, 1930 - was the death at the end of 1929? there are others buried with, have you any other relatives who may be there?

Brian
 
Lucy Smith died 6th September 1929, I haven't got James' certificate yet but he was last quarter 1938, there could be lots of relatives with her, she had seven brothers (Walter*, Harry, Samuel, Edwin, Frederick, Albert and Alban) and three sisters (Isabel, Bertha and Rachel*)
James Joseph Smith only had four brothers (John A, George W, Albert E, and Frederick Robert) and three sisters (Margaret Ann Matilda, Kate and Florence Jane). With the name Smith, tracking down death dates is not easy!

The * signifies they died in Childhood
 
This could be the one that Brian suggested.

Section P Grave no 355

In affectionate remembrance of Martha Wilkes who died March 23rd 1873 aged 74 years. Also of Robert Richardson died November 20th 1878 aged 63 years. Also Phebe his wife who died December 3rd 1878 aged 73 years. Also John Alfred Smith son of the above who died June 4th 1891 aged 58 years. Also Harry Edmund fifth son of the above who died October 5th 1895 aged 18 years. Also John Herbert youngest son of the above John Alfred Smith who died November 14th 1915 aged 29 years. Also Lucy the beloved wife of John Alfred Smith who died March 26th 1930 aged 82 years. Note: No extant memorial. Pike list. Flat slab buried on site.
This was the only Lucy around the date I could find but, maybe not the right one as the death dates are different.
 
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Was just posting this when I see Wendy has checked the inscriptions!

Been over to handsworth cemetery today, and looked at the burial register. It does not have much information but Lucy Smith was buried on march 3rd 1930. She was 82 years old, and address was given as 1 Western Road - This is the address usually given for the old workhouse behind Dudley Road Hospital, later used for the geriatric patients.

I have found the following in the same grave
Phoebe Richardson 1878
Robert Richardson 1878
Harry Edmund Smith 1895
John Alfred Smith 1891
John Herbert Smith 1915
Martha Wilkes 1873

Hope they are part of the right Smiths!
 
Oh dear, back to the drawing board, unfortunately this is not the right Lucy.

She actually lived in Montgomery Street, Sparkbrook. Anyone got any great ideas where she may have been buried?

Bob
 
Could be Yardley, Lodge Hill, even Witton? Sometimes the funeral directors got you in where they could, noy necessarily the nearest.
You could try emailing the cemeteries, but would really recomend you only email one at a time, after receiving replies from previous cemetery.

Brian
 
Brian,

Lucy Smith died 6th September 1929, I haven't got James Joseph Smith's certificate yet but he was last quarter 1938.

Fingers crossed

Bob
 
I have checked the indexes for Warstone Lane and could not find them there either.
 
Wendy and Brian, Update

The chase is back on, I am informed that Lucy is buried in Yardley Cemetery, details as follows:
1929, Number in Register 36505, Date Sep 10, Number of Grave 48576, Section Con D, Description Purchased

It is also possible that James is also buried in Yardley Cemetery, details as follows:
1938, Number in Register 59696, Date Oct 28, Number of Grave 58295, Section Con D, Description Purchased

I don't know what all the last bits mean but I shall try and contact the cemetery and see if they can locate the graves.
Bob
 
They should have no problem finding your grave and purchased means it was bought privatly. There is a good chance of a headstone if it's still there. The graves are both in Section D I think but their sections are numbers so not sure. Good idea to contact the office again. If you have a problem there are several here who can help.:)

There is a map posted by Terryb here. https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=32681&highlight=Yardley+Cemetery+Map
 
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Hi Bob - great news finding them - saw the post this morning and was hoping to pop over to yardley, but time shot by - will see if I can call in tomorrow and find the graves.

Brian
 
Brian,

I spoke to Yardley this morning and hopefully they will have a map for me to pick up on Friday afternoon, strange but after all the disappointments to date I still don't believe I might find it. If you are there by all means have a look but please don't go out of your way.

Bob
 
Wendy and Brian,

I will have to rename the thread to 'Found Smiths', huge thanks to all that have helped along with Yardley Cemetery. I was seriously out date wise for James Joseph but was very pleasantly surprised on a drizzly Saturday morning to find that both James and Lucy are sharing the same grave, see attached photos.

A great result after over 12 months tracking them.

Bob
 
I am so pleased you found them and there is a grave and names on the side rails thats a great result.

A nice picture to add to the family tree!
 
Hi Bob,
I am really pleased that you found your Lost Smiths, I was going to offer to have a look for you but saw that you had planned to go yourself.
I'm curious about the information that you posted for the grave details though, ..the part that says "Section Con D" in particular, because when I have gone to search for my rellies and others at Yardley, the reference has always been a Section Number and a Grave Number..ie. Section 00 Grave 00000.
Could you tell me what or where the "Con D" bit is please and also if the details that you posted were found on a searchable site for burials at Yardley ??

Incidentally, your Lucy may well have known my Great Grandfather and my Grandad as they were living in Montgomery Street on the 1911 and my Nan moved in with the In-Laws in Dec 1929..when she married Grandad.

Lynne
 
Lynne,
I do not know what the ref "Section Con D" means. To locate a burial I believe you have to go to the Birmingham central library and look up the Micro films. Since I live a long way away, I had to employ a Researcher from the The Association of Genealogists and Researchers in Archives. I used a lady named Pam Ross of Cottage Ancestors who managed to get me the references. Armed with this information Yardley Cemetery supplied me with a plan giving the Zone and grave location. I think you only need the grave number but I am no great expert.
Bob
 
Ah, not to worry..and thanks for the info Bob, I keep promising myself a trip to the library, so hopefully I will get there soon. I will ask if they know.

Do you know what number Montgomery Street, The Smiths lived at ? There appear to have been 6 Smith families in 1911.
 
Lynne

Forgot that bit, it was 27 Montgomery Street, details as follows
1920 James Smith, Lucy Smith & James Smith
1922 Lucy Smith
1925 James Joseph & Lucy Smith
Lucy died there in 1929
1930 James Joseph, Bertie, Frederick Robert Smith
1935 James Joseph Smith, Florence Garner, Beatrice Rene Garner
1939 James Joseph Smith
Should also mention in April 1930 their youngest daughter Florence (Born 1907) married Alfred Charles James (born 1908) who was living at 23 Montgomery Street.
Bob
 
HI Bob,

Glad you managed to get over there - morem than I did in the end.

It's great to have found them - and together!

Well worth the wait, I think.

Brian
 
Thanks Bob :thumbsup: :D
presumably they moved into Montgomery Street somewhere between 1911 and 1920 then as I figure they were in Henley Street, just round the corner, in 1911..
My Gt Grandad lived at 63, so it stands a good chance that they knew of each other..
I've been doing a tree for an old flame of mine and his Ancestor lived at 123 Montgomery, he was a Barber and newsagent, so he presumably knew both of our families of the time !! Oddly enough 2 more of his ancestors lived in the same streets as mine at the same time...it never ceases to amaze me how small this world actually is !!!! :grouphugg04:
(apologies for going off topic)
 
Glad to see that you eventually found your graves. I have been following your post. I have a similar style family double grave with curbing and vases which I found eventually in Sutton Coldfield. As I live in Cornwall, my friend found the grave for me and photographed it until I could get to see it. Unfortunately my great grandparent's gravewas very sadly neglected though (all the family long moved away and nobody visited for years) - the slabs on top sunk and vases toppling and I contacted the cemetery to see what I could do to smarten it all up. Not sure now if you have to be the oldest surviving relative to have renovated... but my sister and I are the only relatives left anyway after my uncle died in 2000 and so I suggested with the little bit of money he left, that we have the curbing cleaned, slabs straightened and vases cemented down. My great grandparents are all very tidy now. It was a very satisfying experience to do. Georgie
 
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