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Mark Tooze
master brummie
Four Oaks Station early 1980s. Then it had extra DMU sidings, a lineside hut and a signal box - all now gone sadly......
Mark Tooze
master brummie
But if you hunt around remnants of the past can still be found - wooden sleepers on the bay platform buffer stop:-
Remnants of the old trackwork still remain:-
Broken wooden sleeper on the bay platform line:-
Platform 2 & 3 buildings are wonderfully preserved:-
Metal plates on concrete platform footbridge:-
And on the roadbridge:-
Remnants of the old trackwork still remain:-
Broken wooden sleeper on the bay platform line:-
Platform 2 & 3 buildings are wonderfully preserved:-
Metal plates on concrete platform footbridge:-
And on the roadbridge:-
Mark Tooze
master brummie
I don't know but the B&W's were taken around 45 years ago - have you only just missed it?
Glennys Jean
master brummie
Beautiful !!
Birmingham Archives & Collections have just posted, on Twitter, 'A map of Sutton Coldfield Town Centre and Adjoining Farm Land circa 1760 drawn by J H Hill in 1977 from various old plans and private surveys.'
I noticed a reference to the Hart Inn, roughly where the Royal is now. This is not mentioned by Roger Lea in his note on the Royal and I wondered if anyone had any information?
I noticed a reference to the Hart Inn, roughly where the Royal is now. This is not mentioned by Roger Lea in his note on the Royal and I wondered if anyone had any information?
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Lady Penelope
master brummie
Hi Ornette,
Thank you for posting the map. It may have been that the Hart Inn information wasn't available when Roger wrote about The Royal. Lots of things have come to light about Sutton and I expect more will be discovered in the future.
I'm going to the Sutton Coldfield Local History Research Group this afternoon and will see if anyone has any information for you. It's very sad but Sutton Library closes on Saturday so this is our last meeting there. We are effectively homeless and all the archives are being transferred to Birmingham (which is the right place for them). They need careful, expert handling and in some cases restoration.
We were hoping that the information in the reference section, on the open shelves, would be left in Sutton but unfortunately this isn't the case. We only had a month's notice of the closure date as did the staff. As you can see from the name we are primarily a research group and after Saturday we will have nothing to research and nowhere to do it!
Thank you for posting the map. It may have been that the Hart Inn information wasn't available when Roger wrote about The Royal. Lots of things have come to light about Sutton and I expect more will be discovered in the future.
I'm going to the Sutton Coldfield Local History Research Group this afternoon and will see if anyone has any information for you. It's very sad but Sutton Library closes on Saturday so this is our last meeting there. We are effectively homeless and all the archives are being transferred to Birmingham (which is the right place for them). They need careful, expert handling and in some cases restoration.
We were hoping that the information in the reference section, on the open shelves, would be left in Sutton but unfortunately this isn't the case. We only had a month's notice of the closure date as did the staff. As you can see from the name we are primarily a research group and after Saturday we will have nothing to research and nowhere to do it!
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
June 1849 Freehold and Lease hold Auction includes two substantially built tournaments situated at Blabs, near town of Sutton and in the occupation of Edward Pattison and William Ingley.
Also…Excellent Meadow, called Blab’s Meadow and Great Blab’s Meadow.
this about the workhouse in mill st i think it must be the one marked out on the map post 98
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Apologies. duplicate post.
The Sutton Coldfield Local History Group website has this:
Volume 13 : Article 4 : The History of Sutton's Workhouse: 1737 - 1903
Volume 13 : Article 4 : The History of Sutton's Workhouse: 1737 - 1903
sclhrg.org.uk
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Lady Penelope
master brummie
Ornette, as promised I went to the library this afternoon and asked the question.
JH Hill was a former member of the group some years ago.
The inn was called The White Hart rather than The Hart. It wasn't exactly on the site of the Royal but just a little further up. Probably approximately where Butco used to be in a 1960's building set back from the road.
The coming of the railway disturbed several properties and this may have been one.
It became a domestic property lived in by Miss Bracken, a notable Sutton resident and later by Mr Shirley Perkins. These names may help you pinpoint the property.
I still have one more avenue to explore and ŵill let you know any findings.
JH Hill was a former member of the group some years ago.
The inn was called The White Hart rather than The Hart. It wasn't exactly on the site of the Royal but just a little further up. Probably approximately where Butco used to be in a 1960's building set back from the road.
The coming of the railway disturbed several properties and this may have been one.
It became a domestic property lived in by Miss Bracken, a notable Sutton resident and later by Mr Shirley Perkins. These names may help you pinpoint the property.
I still have one more avenue to explore and ŵill let you know any findings.
sorry to hear that you have lost the libary pen...sadly they are becoming a thing of the past
and ok the archives are going to be transferred to birmingham library but its not always possible or convenient for people to get therelyn
Lady Penelope
master brummie
Exactly Lyn. I can get on the train and then the tram which sounds easy but with creaking limbs and very little get-up-and-go I view the prospect with dismay. I think we're going to try to go to the Wolfson Centre once a month but of course that depends on how things are at home. Some of Sutton's records are already in Birmingham.
I just wish we'd been given more notice.
Pen
I just wish we'd been given more notice.
Pen
Lady P, thanks for investigating further. Some thoughts.
Roger Lea references a pub called the White Hart, on the site of what is now the N-Legal building but this burned down in 1621. Perhaps a coincidence. It is a common pub name.
Roger Lea also states that Miss Bracken lived at Vesey House, 5 High Street, that is adjacent to the building which was the White Hart.
My impression, from what I have read (I am very much a beginner in this) is that Mr Shirley Perkins lived in the Moat House, up the road.
I agree about the location as the building which eventually became the Royal was previously a private house with large formal gardens, shown on the map, just to the south. (Kerry Osbourne (People and Buildings of SC vol 3, p10).
On the face of it the map is accurate, given the known location of buildings. The mapmaker seems to be meticulous.
Given our knowledge of the other pubs on the map it seems strange that there is no evidence of its existence (under either name) between the date of the map and its presumed demolition by the railway cutting.
Roger Lea references a pub called the White Hart, on the site of what is now the N-Legal building but this burned down in 1621. Perhaps a coincidence. It is a common pub name.
Roger Lea also states that Miss Bracken lived at Vesey House, 5 High Street, that is adjacent to the building which was the White Hart.
My impression, from what I have read (I am very much a beginner in this) is that Mr Shirley Perkins lived in the Moat House, up the road.
I agree about the location as the building which eventually became the Royal was previously a private house with large formal gardens, shown on the map, just to the south. (Kerry Osbourne (People and Buildings of SC vol 3, p10).
On the face of it the map is accurate, given the known location of buildings. The mapmaker seems to be meticulous.
Given our knowledge of the other pubs on the map it seems strange that there is no evidence of its existence (under either name) between the date of the map and its presumed demolition by the railway cutting.
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Mark Tooze
master brummie
Lovely repro poster now installed at the bottom of the ramp at Sutton Station:-
Its a better depiction of the park than this 1928 LMS poster which puts the park somewhere between Hogwarts and Toytown.......
Its a better depiction of the park than this 1928 LMS poster which puts the park somewhere between Hogwarts and Toytown.......
From the typeface the Shoulder of Mutton is a piece of land, not a building.
Does anyone know what the abbreviations E.C. L.H. V.S.L. and A.H. mean?
Lady Penelope
master brummie
Ornette, from what I was told yesterday Miss Bracken lived in a least two homes on the High Street. It was a little chaotic yesterday as there was so much to get through and we're not meeting for some weeks. I've made a note and if anything else comes to light I'll keep you posted.
Shirley Perkins did live at Moat House but moved to the White Hart Building. I will add this to my queries list for when we get organised.
I'm not sure that it was demolished for the railway but definitely must have been affected.
Glad you found Kerry Osbourne's book useful. Very meticulously written. Unfortunately I probably won't see him again now that the library has closed.
Shirley Perkins did live at Moat House but moved to the White Hart Building. I will add this to my queries list for when we get organised.
I'm not sure that it was demolished for the railway but definitely must have been affected.
Glad you found Kerry Osbourne's book useful. Very meticulously written. Unfortunately I probably won't see him again now that the library has closed.
Lady Penelope
master brummie
Hi Again Ornette, I can't think what AH and LH stand for at the moment- there seem to be a lot of AH's - but my guess for EC is Emmanuel College (the college owned much land in Sutton and Emmanuel Church in Wylde Green is built on EC land). VSL I would think is land belonging to Vesey School. I wish I was going to the library on Tuesday then I could ask there but I will email one of the members and ask if they have any thoughts.
Thanks Lady P. Emmanuel College and Vesey School seems right.
This is from Sarah Holbeche’s diary, March 1855:
‘Carpenter Holbeche left opposite house and it became "The White Hart" (disgusting). Mr Cull became our next door neighbour.’
(https://sclhrg.org.uk/sarah-holbech...ge-45.html?highlight=WyJ3aGl0ZSIsImhhcnQiXQ==)
Carpenter Holbeche is not otherwise mentioned in her diary but it is reasonable to assume that he was a relative.
Kerry Osborne, in People and Buildings of Sutton Coldfield, vol. 3, p10 tells us that Sarah Holbeche lived on the east side of the High Street in a house that was demolished in 1878 to make way for the railway.
My suggestion would be that the 'opposite house' - which fits the location of the Hart Inn - was renamed the White Hart in 1855. Not sure why SH should find this disgusting. Perhaps just annoyed at the change of name. Her diary does not reveal any antipathy to drink or pubs.