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Smiths Florence

M

mbason

proper brummie kid
Looking for information about Florence Smith (b~1884 in Ireland? d-~1958), spinster, living with her mother on Montgomery St., Sparkbrook.
Florence's mother (Mrs Smith) would have been the spouse of Sarah Smith's (b 1849, Brookfields, Birmingham) brother. Sarah Smith married (1875) James Hester, Jr., a dairy farmer on land situated between Bacchus and Handsworth New Roads.
Sarah was my great grandmother.
Hope someone can help!
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Mbason
I thought I might be of some help but I don't think we are related to the same Smith's.

We had a 'Florence Jane Smith' but she was born in 1875 in Birmingham. She had a brother James Joseph Smith (my Grandfather) who married another Smith, (Lucy, my Grandmother) and they had six children. One of their daughters was named Florence (born 1909). Between 1920 and her death, Lucy is recorded as living at 27 Montgomery Street, Florence her daughter was there up to her marriage in 1930. Included are a couple of pages from my family history (work in progress)

A number of co-incidences but not really surprising with such a popular surname.

Good luck with your search

Bob
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Bob--Thanks for the info. I had seen your previous posting and concluded that it was close but no cigar. I'm in the USA. Do you know if there is a way to access detailed census information more recent than 1901 or 1911? Maurice
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Maurice,
I personally don't know of a way to get any more recent Census information than 1911 (I believe it is still subject to restrictions on Information Act). Some of the folks at this forum have access to the electoral role information so hopefully they will join in and help. They have been brilliant helping me over the last year, Smiths are not an easy bunch to trace. I hope you have success in your endeavour, but be careful, it can become very addictive!!
Bob
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

There is no reference to a florence smith in montgomery st in the electoral rolls for 1920, 1939, 1945,1950 or 1955
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Maurice,
Tried looking up a few bits but could do with some more information.
Do you know what Sarah's parents and brothers names were?
Bob
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Louisa--You have opened up some new avenues for my research! Thank you so much for your response. So far I have not solved the problem, but your additional resources may in the end be fruitful. Mauirce
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Thanks, MikeJee--This is very valuable information for me as I pursue Florence and Sarah Smith. My mother may have made a mistake in thinking that Florence and her mother lived on Montgomery St., Sparkbrook. I'll check back again with her--she's 97 yoa! Maurice
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Hi Louisa--The detail of your response amazes me. Thank you so much. The links do not lead me directly to an answer to my Smith puzzle, but add resources to my quest. Thank you so much. Maurice
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Bob--

Thanks, first of all, for your help!

According to family lore, Sarah "ran away from Ireland", but census records indicate a birth in Birmingham, in one case at "Brookfields, Birmingham, Warwicks". Her marriage certificate shows birth~1849, current location on Barker Street, Aston (1875), father George Smith, deceased, silversmith.

Sarah was my mother's grandmother, dead before my mother's birth. My mother frequently visited her mother's (Jane Maud Colesby), cousin, whom she called Aunt Florry (Florence Smith), who lived with her infirm widowed mother in the early 1900's in Sparkbrook. Florence died in 1958 or thereabouts. So I surmise that Florry was the daughter of Sarah's brother. Family lore suggests that Florry was born in Ireland, George may have died in Ireland, and Florence was left with the care of her mother for many years in the early 1900's. She had an annuity, purchased by her Irish relatives, to care for her mother.

I'm still short of the critical information, I think. Maurice
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Maurice

You won't believe this:) I've been searching for you and was just looking at the census for James Hester and Sarah Hester to try and glean some info to help with tracing Florence Smith and as I clicked into it I got the message "You have saved this to your Rogers Tree"!!!!! Looking into it:

Ernest James Hester (1880-1930), the son of James Hester (dairyman) & Sarah, married Edith Bickley, my 1st cousin twice removed, in 1905. Edith was the daughter of Sarah Rogers and Samuel Bickley. Sarah Rogers (1850-1913) was my great Aunt, daughter of John Rogers (my Gt Gt grandfather) and sister to my great grandfather, John Rogers.

Small world isn't it? :)

Anyway, I shall keep on searching:)

Suzanne
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

A small world indeed! Ernest James was my Grand Uncle. Now I can add his wife to my tree. I have his children as Frederick, Gladys and Jack, who my mother (97 yoa) remembers. Thankyou for your help; please keep an eye open for Sarah's mother and her brother's daughter, Florence!
All the best,
Maurice
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Hi
I will certainly keep an eye out for them:)
regards
Suzanne
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Hi folks. Louisa's lead to the Smiths of Birmingham index led me to new information!

There's a chance that Sarah (b~1849 according to marriage cert. and census records) might actually have been born in 1844 to George (silversmith) and Mary Smith of Pope St in the Jewellry Quarter. I would have thought that if Sarah wanted to fudge her age downwards, there would not be a need to fudge it so far as to bring her in two years younger than her husband!

My concern also is that family lore suggests that George would have been born in Ireland, not Warwickshire as the 1841 census shows. Would there have been reasons to hide your Irish origins in those days (fear of being caught as an illegal immigrant would be a reason here in the USA)? At some point I need to find the Smith's of Nobber, county Meath, Ireland, and build the links to Florence Smith, spinster, and her mother, Mrs. Smith, 1930's and 1940's residents of Sparkbrook (though I now understand not on Montgomery Street).

Thanks for your thoughts on these matters.

Maurice
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Maurice,

It may not be the same family but the loss of 5 years of a Lady's age seems to be endemic with 'Smith's,' attached is another extract from my Ancestor Summaries, please note Lucy Smith (she who moved to Montgomery Street) had a similar trait. It doesn't help when you are tracking them.

Whatever, good luck.

Bob
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

Hi Folks--I'm excited to report some great progress on my Smith ancestors. I am now convinced that Sarah Smith was the daughter of George (the silversmith) and Mary (Scott) Smith, and was indeed born in 1844. Her younger brother, William Scott Smith was the father of Florence, whose full name was Elizabeth Florence Georgiana Smith, born in 1879. Florence shows up in 1911 as a 32 year old spinster living in Small Heath (the Sparkbrook connection?). Florence is listed in the 1911 census as Elizabeth Florence G. Smith; Registration office: Aston (Small Heath); Sub district: Bordesley; Aston Parish, Warwickshire.
According to the family, Florence lived as a spinster with her mother until her mother died, then lived alone in the Small Heath/Sparkbrook area. Is anyone able to help me with a street address form Florence and her mother? I can't seem to get to that level of detail with my internet resources.
Thanks, Maurice
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

back of 126 Muntz Street
1912 William Scott Smith listed at 61 Victoria Street
1920-1931 at 69 Somerville Road,Elizabeth Smith and Elizabeth Florence Georgina Smith
1935-1939 at 46 Fenton Road,Elizabeth Florence Georgina Smith
 
Re: Sorry, the Smiths again

ladylinda said:
back of 126 Muntz Street
1912 William Scott Smith listed at 61 Victoria Street
1920-1931 at 69 Somerville Road,Elizabeth Smith and Elizabeth Florence Georgina Smith
1935-1939 at 46 Fenton Road,Elizabeth Florence Georgina Smith
Click to expand...

Thanks you so much for this information. I'd love to know how/where you found it; it would be interesting to me to find out where EFG Smith was living after 1939!

Maurice
 
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